Its time to discuss trading Jalen Green while he's still worth a damn

Nix is a terrible player who is a fat slob

 

The real list should be:
1) sengun
2) cade
3) wagner
4)mobley
5) giddey

This is top 5 from the draft green should be rank 15

 

It's cause all of those other guys do other things. Defense, rebounding, playmaking. All Jalen does is score and mostly in isolation and that doesn't really mean much anymore.

 

Those guys do defense? Okay.

Green doesn't do many isolation plays. I think you are confusing isolation with pnr possessions which is by far his most common possession. If you can't understand the difference between those two type of possessions then I don't need to further discuss basketball with you.

 

It's people regurgitating the tired narrative from early in the season that the Rockets run too much ISO when they only run about 8 isolation possessions per game ..... but the narrative is that they run it every time down the court.

 

3/4 guys are amazing defenders. Evan Mobley is 11th in defensive win shares, Franz Wagner (on a crappy team that's not good at defense) is 34th, and Scottie Barnes is 68th. Jalen is 440. If you don't think those guys play difference then you're the one who doesn't know anything about basketball. I'm giving you numbers while you talk out of your ass about players you never even watch.

Jalen Green is 34th in the ENTIRE NBA in isolation possessions per game. Higher than anyone else on that list. Higher than Jaylen Brown, Darius Garland, Devin Booker, Steph Curry, Haliburton and many more.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation

Google is free bro, learn it. Fact still stands, he scores and what else? Everyone scores now, a superstar has to do that and a ton of other things.

 

Jalen Green has 2.6 possessions per game in isolation. Jalen Green has 10 possessions a game that are designated as pnr ball handling possessions.

 

And those 2.6 are in the top 34 of the NBA. PnR or isolation though, he only averages 3.6 assists per game with all those on ball possessions. So what does he do other than score? Nothing. How many pure scorers are there in this last set of Allstars? 0. Exactly 0. Last I checked CJ McCollum and Monta Ellis never became Allstars.

And you know the most annoying thing here? I actually really like Jalen. I think he'll be a great complementary player. But I like reality more. Acting like there's any way he can be some MVP candidate is just ridiculous and the reasons for that are who he fundamentally is as a player.

 

If everything else (skill level, smart, etc.) is the same, a lean and strong body beats a fat body in basketball. Who knows how much better those chubby guys would be if they had the same body as the Greek Freak. Have you forgotten the difference between a fat Harden and an in-shape Harden?

 

Top 34 for a player who averages 34 minutes a night as a starter and is a primary scorer of a team is perfectly reasonable?

Jalen Green is not going to be the same player at 25. Green between the first season and second season increased his ast rate substantially. He's improved his pnr possessions also. In fact he leads the team in pnr ppp even ahead of our pg and he's a off guard.

What Green is now is someone with elite dribble seperation ability who beats perimeter defenses easily and collapses defenses easily who is inconsistent in finding the open men he generates by beating said perimeter defenses or finishing because he gets too confident in a crowded paint.


But because of that elite dribble seperation ability at such a young age we are hoping by the time he hits his prime he does use that dribble seperation to find teammates more and expand his game beyond just scoring and becoming a playmaker. He shown improvement in that regard from year one to year two in a disfunctional system that is full of other 20 year olds.

Guys like CJ in their second year were 24 years old and averaging 8 ppg on the same efficiency as Green at age 20-21. The difference between second year CJ and current CJ who is a good scorer in the league is refinement of scoring moves and shooting consistency. When CJ was 20 he did not have the natural ability to put up 20 even inefficiently with raw natural ability to beat defenders off the dribble with elite seperation base don elite physical traits. Hence why a guy like CJ can't expand into a prolific playmaker because he wasn't the type at that age who constantly beat permintee defenses and missed shot because his game wasn't refined. No at that age I'm the NNa CJ got his looks from teammates more often and not because he was creating seperation off the dribble. There means he didn't have the head room to expand to a playmaker. Playmakers in the mold of scorers first like Mcgrady or Kobe or Wade get their assists by beating perimeter defenses with their elite seperation abilities. Green has that potential when his game is refined in a more structured environment.

 

Fat Harden - 2016 year where McHale got fired.

In shape Harden - 2018 when he won MVP and got to the wcf.

 

I'm gonna stop arguing with you because I really do love Green but even if he becomes exactly the player you say he won't be an MVP candidate and one of the best players in the league. You just have to do more than that. Kobe and Jordan were both DPOY level defenders at the 2 guard. Wade, who i think is a more realistic dream scenario for Jalen but was really more suited as your 2nd best player (yes i know 2006 but that was a weird year), was also a an incredible defender and one of the best shot blocking guards in history. That's something Jalen will never be. He can, but let's just be honest here, he won't.

Harden and TMac while not particularly great defenders were both amazing playmakers and rebounded the ball a ton. Sure Jalen can maybe be a 6 apg player one day because of his seperation skills but he'll never be a 6 rpg guy.

To be one of the best players in the NBA you have to do a lot of things very very well. Jalen can be an elite scorer and pretty good playmaker but even then how far can that take you? If he maxes out as someone like Dame with even less playmaking, is that gonna be the best player on a championship team? Dames currently averaging 31.4/4.3/7.1 which would be a wet dream scenario for Jalen but does anyone actually think he can win a championship? It's just not a very effective formula for a star player.

 

TMac was no were close to an elite playmaker at 20.

You missed the part where I said Green has skillsets that the players you compared him to(CJ McCollum for example) didn't have any never will have that shows promise that he can expand his game to be an above average playmaker while being an elite scorer.

The dude gets 17-20 shots a game because of his seperation ability off the dribble. That's a core trait that over time can make him a above average playmaker.

 

I never understand sentiments like this. Why does Green have to be our only superstar? Why can't it be like three core guys leading us to rings. Is Booker leading his team by himself to finals appearances. We don't have to follow the Hakeem or Giannis mold of one superstar to carry us to rings.

Green can be a 1a or 1b or 1c.

 

We're just talking about Green's ceiling right here. I'm not saying he has to be that for us, I'm saying he can never be that for anyone. That's ok with me, like I said I like Green but let's be realistic about his ceiling. I'd absolutely love for him to be our 1b or 1c. But guys like Mobley, Cade and Franz (probably not Scottie), I absolutely think have the potential to be a 1a. They're bigger, very skilled for the size, and just do more. Green plays the most useless position in the modern NBA.

 

I just strongly disagree with this sentiment. A 1a has to be a got to scorer also who can beat defenders down off the dribble on their own. Green is by far the best at that. Mobley isn't a self creator. Barnes is a big who has a easier shot profile and lower volume and still has a lower ts% than Green.

This notion that a player is a little better as a passer and better a sa defender means they can be a batter 1a is silly to me. The traits you describe for the others are traits better suited for elite role players. Mobley is looking like an elite role player. He scores 24% of his points unassisted compared to Green who scores 60% of his points unassisted. The former unassisted percentage is the percentage of a role player, not a 1a.

To me it's the reverse. Those other guys like Barnes and Mobley have shown they are capable of being elite role players. Green has not shown that. He's shown that he's a guy you dump the ball to and tell him "go score the ball".

In their primes, I have no doubt Green will be averaging more assists than guys like Barnes because he's going to be dribbling a lot more and beating perimeter defenses a lot more mwaining he doesn't even need to be a better passer than someone like Barnes to rack up more assists because most of his assists will be easy passes to open men created by his seperation ability which leads to help defenses collapsing. It's why someone like Westbrook gets a lot more assists than guys like Rubio. Rubio is by far the more accurate and better floor general who sees the court better. Westbrook in his prime just generated a lot of open looks because he constantly got to the rim.

 

The 1a has to be overall one of the top 5 players on the team which right now Jalen Green isn't.

Also, to be a "go to scorer" they have to have something in their bag besides just going fast and praying they get bailed out by a whistle.

A "go to scorer" has to be able to score efficiently


Could one day Jalen improve enough to where he'd fit in as a "1a" type? It's not impossible... but you could say that about a couple of guys on the team, some that are considerably ahead of Jalen.

I think it's more likely he becomes a 6th man type than a "1a" type.

 

Because there’s a good handful of people that had been comparing him to Shai heavily over the past few weeks. ******** on JG because how well Shai has been playing all year. Who is now in his 5th year.

 

Brown hair. Don't care.