1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Alperen Sengun is the Rockets' franchise player

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. harold bingo

    harold bingo Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes Received:
    12,499
    There are some issues with this analysis. For starters, sorting by FG% is just wrong. A guy who shoots 49% from 3 is better than a guy who shoots 50% from 2. If you look at the stats you posted but sort if by eFG, which accounts for 3s being more valuable, he is below KPJ, Gordon, Matthews, and KJ Martin. So your initial premise that he's the best jumpshooter isn't really accurate. Secondly, volume matters too. A guy with a 50% eFG on 1000 shots is a better jumpshooter than a guy with 51% eFG on 100 shots. This one is a lot more subjective, but volume has to count for something.

    That aside, I don't know for sure what this data counts as a jump shot, but I assume it's counting his little 8 foot push shot. Which is fine, you can count that if you want, he's very good at that shot. It's a nice addition to his game that we didn't see last year. But I think when most people say he needs to add a jumpshot to his game, they aren't talking about that. He needs a way to score consistently outside of the paint, which means he needs to add range to his game. I don't want to take away from the push shot that he's added, it's great, but it just doesn't qualify as adding range, even though it does show up as a jumpshot in this data.
     
    Zen Tabak likes this.
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    Thanks, I appreciate that someone responded.

    You are correct that if you sort it by eFG, he (barely) ranks below those guys - but that is on jump shots only, and he already improved greatly from year 1 to year 2, both on all jump shots and on his threes.

    If we want to go to the argument that overall eFG matters, let's look at that:

    upload_2023-2-15_10-52-52.png

    Unsurprisingly, KMJ ranks very high because he dunks all the time lol (and makes almost all of them).

    Then (ignoring Garuba, small sample size) it's already Alpi, head and shoulders above the rest.

    All that said, I totally agree with you that he should expand his range, if only to "keep the defense honest", and having more weapons is always better than having fewer weapons.

    Looking at his improvement from year 1 to year 2 and his shooting form, I see no reason to believe he cannot do it.

    I also would like to see him get his FT % above .800.

    P.S.: Nix sucks. TyTy needs to work on those threes.
     
    cml750 and harold bingo like this.
  3. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    19,925
    Likes Received:
    31,269
    % of FGs by distance for Alpie:

    0-3 feet = 40%
    3-10 feet = 46%
    10-16 feet = .055%
    16-3p line = .016%
    3pers = .068%

    Average distance of his shots is 6 feet!

    "Alpie doesnt need to extend range he's already the best shooter on the team" :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Dobbizzle, fchowd0311 and Tuckmose like this.
  4. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    Yeah didn't see most of that. He acted normal to me but that's messed up if he was racist, talked about Kobe's death and Silas losing his dad. Even if you dislike Silas as a coach that's not cool. He's a good person. On DD, I won't defend him. He certainly I'd opinionated and talks his share of trash. If he doesn't have a thyroid issue there's no excuse for being that heavy. If you can post 100k times on message board you can spend a m hour in the gym
     
    maj21 and cml750 like this.
  5. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    I never put people on ignore. Everyone talks a little but end of the day there's a lot of good points made. I don't mess with the racist stuff so we're on point there. No place for that garbage
     
    TheJet likes this.
  6. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    Alpi is definitely criticized too much on D. He's never going to have Hakeem's footwork but he's a very smart player. People also don't realize he's covering for Jalen and KPJ because they're essentially traffic cones. I'm so disappointed in Jalen this season. I don't see the "gym rat" he was supposed to be.

    I would like to see Alpi develop a more consistent 3. He'd basically be unguardable
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    @AroundTheWorld is kinda clueless with basketball. Like this dude can't comprehend the game beyond looking at a fg percentage.
     
    Verbal Christ likes this.
  8. harold bingo

    harold bingo Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes Received:
    12,499
    Yeah I don't disagree with any of this, but don't shift the goalposts. We all know he's an efficient scorer. It's not about his efficiency, it's about a way to add volume. Right now he's limited by his lack of range, and that's why his points aren't that high. He's not the type of player to force shots. If you combine that with his lack of range, it's why you see so many games where he goes like 5-8 or 7-11 from the floor with like 16 points. He's only got one game over 30 points. If he wants to be a superstar in this league he has to be able to take over games, put the team on his back, and just do it himself some nights. The most logical way is to add a jumpshot, he could do it like Embiid, or Jokic, or Dirk, or Hakeem, or he can do it his own way. He's a very creative player. But he needs a way to get 20-25+ good shooting possessions for himself, and as many others have pointed out, it's not likely that he'll ever get that many shots per game right around the basket using his current skillset.
     
    fryjol7 and fchowd0311 like this.
  9. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    19,925
    Likes Received:
    31,269
    He is a good gaslighter so he has that going for him.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Between being a diamond level MLM sales executive and b****ing about trans people on the debate section of a NBA team fan message board, he has little time to actually learn the game of basketball.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    Agreed.

    The guy he should try to hire and work with over the summer (if available) is Holger Geschwindner, who was Dirk's personal coach.
     
    King1 likes this.
  12. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    That's a great suggestion. He was amazing with Dirk. There's a prwtty good documentary of them working together
     
  13. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    He is intelligent. I think you don't like his politics but that has nothing to do with basketball. I think at the end of the day we are all dissapointed with how Houston is playing. We neef Wemby or Scoot
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Show me a post of his discussing the game beyond saying fg% a> fg% b?
     
  15. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    I'm not going to search his post history. I do agree with you that fg% isnxt tbe end all and be all. I agree with h that Alpi is super under valued here.

    We are both Green dans but he looks terrible
     
  16. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,095
    Likes Received:
    29,524
    Green has a lot that he needs to work on. Sengun has more defined weaknesses.

    I am a teacher. You know when a student is very good, you can bring up definitive things to help him be even better. For a student who is behind in so many things, you don't really know where to start to help him. Sengun is the first kind of guy. Green is somewhat of the second kind. That said, there are things that Green should work on first.
     
    fryjol7 and AroundTheWorld like this.
  17. MystikArkitect

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    22,924
    Jalen has multiple 40 point games and is averaging 22-4-4 his sophomore season. I guess it speaks volumes to Jalen's ability that that's disappointing to some. All of Jalen, Jabari and Sengun have stuff to work on with only Sengun having issues that I deem to be in the "could be extremely problematic" territory. Jalen and Jabari have issues with either knowledge, reps or effort. Sengun has issues physically and those can 100% not be corrected or fixed. They can only be mitigated. His games against bigger centers are the ones I'm going to start judging him by because he straight up has no idea what to do against them. He's just smaller than they are and not twitchy enough to get shots over them or around them. He needs to be able to break Embiid/Jokic down off the dribble and explode more to the basket to get his shots here.

    Defensively it's disastrous right now. No one in the NBA can defend these guys but Alpy specifically is basically free points for them right now and I'm trying to see how this is going to change. Jalen and Jabari are both athletic and have undeveloped bodies, Alpy doesn't have this same upside. If the team is committed to him, which I think they are and should be, we absolutely need a Jarace Walker type of player at the 3 to help defensively. Tari isn't going to be the answer there if Sengun is going to be the 5 moving forward.

    But if we get Victor then none of this matters lol. And Alpy shooting a 3 is exactly what the other team is going to want him to do. Because Alpy even as a 35-37% 3 point shooter, a three from him is a much better proposition for the opposing team than him having the ball deep in the post or causing chaos with his passing and screening.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    The data does not agree with your assessment of his defense. Disastrous is a vast overstatement that fits Jalen's defense and Jabari's shooting a lot more than it fits any part of Alpi's game.
     
  19. MystikArkitect

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,115
    Likes Received:
    22,924
    Again...I'm speaking purely to upside and projection and not how they are currently. I watched Harden for his entire tenure here and watch Jokic/Sabonis/Doncic/Trae and other players I think who's defensive issues are far more problematic than people want to believe. Paolo is another one that has this problem.

    Jalen can correct his defense (will he? I dont know) and anyone who worries about Jabari's shot at this point is either a casual or immature. I probably can't emphasize the Jabari part enough because it's getting incredibly tiresome to see people worrying about what I believe is the least worrying part of this team. Every other player has far more glaring weaknesses than Jabari Smith. Eason, Sengun and Jalen included. Speaking pragmatically, Sengun likely will not ever be a a plus defender My hope is that at best he's not a defensive sieve and even *this* is a stretch. This is further down the road and obviously Sengun's offensive acumen makes this point moot for *right now*. The team will not lose games because Jabari Smith can't drive to the basket. He's not good at it but it's not a deal breaker. The team loses games because Jalen loses his man constantly on defense. The team loses games because Sengun isn't laterally quick enough to keep up with opposing players or tall enough to alter shots. Jalen can work on being engaged on defense and is incredible one on one *when he tries*. Sengun is not.

    I love Sengun but there's a difference between being a Sengun fan and being a "Sengunatic" as some people here like to call them. Stay objective.
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  20. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2021
    Messages:
    6,348
    Likes Received:
    9,550
    Same person posted numerous Hitler memes at me after I told him I was jewish and didn't appreciate it. Absolute scumbag. The sort of person you celebrate if they die tragically, not mourn.
     
    Verbal Christ likes this.

Share This Page