1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. astros123

    astros123 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    13,526
    Likes Received:
    10,945
    Germany already agreed on not using Nordstream 2 and biden and scholz agreed that if Russia invaded then Germany would stop Nordstream which is exactly what happened.

    Why the hell would usa blow up the pipeline when they already had everything going for them. Biden has been a supporter of Germany for 3 decades. His first call in office was to PM Merkel.

    There's literally 0% chance biden blew up the pipeline. Herch provides ZERO had evidence and his entire thing is based off one unknown source. What a load of bs
     
    rocketsjudoka and Xopher like this.
  2. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    So whether you think the war should continue or we should try to end it depends on the person having the opinion? I guess that fits your "I am against whatever Biden is for" philosophy, but it's also an extremely dumb thing to say and think on your part.
     
    gifford1967 likes this.
  3. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,098
    Likes Received:
    8,539
    Que? I never said Biden was unnecessarily drawing out the war. I stated there is no winning this war if the narrative is to push Russia out of Ukraine (and apparently Crimea is the new goal post). I stated at best, Russia could deploy behind its borders and continuously harass Ukraine. Nobody knows what happens from here, no matter how much you think you know. Escalation is increasing. The goal should be to convince the Russian population to remove Putin (instead of cheering and celebrating tens of thousands of deaths of people/soldiers who never wanted to be part of this war).

    Again, I dont understand why people like you have a problem with Musk not wanting his terminal to be used as an active weapon. People like you have this thing where if someone disagrees with you, they are therefore the worst version of your enemy. Its incredibly childish.
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,253
    Likes Received:
    9,223
    you began your question with “So…”, so I regret to say you’ve lost me.
     
  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    19,234
    Likes Received:
    14,238
    Dutch F-35s intercept three Russian military aircraft near Poland - Netherlands' defence ministry

    Feb 14 (Reuters) - Two Dutch F-35 fighters intercepted a formation of three Russian military aircraft near Poland and escorted them out, the Netherlands' defence ministry said in a statement late on Monday.

    "The then unknown aircraft approached the Polish NATO area of responsibility from Kaliningrad," according to Reuters' translation of the ministry's statement.

    Kaliningrad is a Russian Baltic coast enclave located between NATO and European Union members Poland and Lithuania.

    https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...-aircraft-over-poland-netherlands-2023-02-13/
     
    astros123 likes this.
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,046
    Poland seems to be the last NATO border state Russia would want to mess with...
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,300
    Lev Parnas: What Giuliani and Trump Were After in Ukraine | Time
    • FEBRUARY 14, 2023
    In 2021 and 2022, I was convicted of several serious crimes including fraud, making false statements, and illegally funneling foreign money to the Trump campaign. I was sentenced to 20 months in prison, served four, and am on home confinement for the remainder. Now that I am paying my debt to society, I think it is important to tell my side of the story.

    my real job was to help undermine and destabilize the Ukrainian government.

    I eventually realized that not only was I enabling Trump’s dirty tricks in the 2020 election, I was also risking that Ukraine would be essentially unarmed when Putin invaded.
     
    astros123, ROXTXIA and No Worries like this.
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,333
    The deaths of Russian soldiers on the battlefiled is very big motivator to remove Putin. Also there are other measures such as sanctions that are meant to convince Russians that they are going down the wrong path.
     
    No Worries likes this.
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,762
    Likes Received:
    20,517
    The Russian approach to war is to go.in with the assumption that they will lose 500,000 soldiers (now 100K down with 400K to go) and that that will be enough to outlast their opponent.

    This time might be different. The Russians are losing military equipment at too great of a burn rate. By the time they get to 250K soldiers dead, they will be dangerously low on tanks, APVs, missiles, et al. This likely will be another year down the road, with another year of economic sanctions damage. Russia is so ****ed ... but ... I would not be surprised if Putin is still in charge.
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,253
    Likes Received:
    9,223
    Apropos Kaliningrad:

     
    Ubiquitin and FranchiseBlade like this.
  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,040
    Likes Received:
    23,300
    Unfortunately, Putin's control and power make it extremely unlikely that he can be removed by the Russian population. It's more probable that Putin decided to end the aggression than being forced down or removed by people under his control.
     
    No Worries likes this.
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,675
    Likes Received:
    22,394
    This is fascinating, and should be brought up every time a Trumper says "Ukraine wouldn't have been invaded by Russia" or "Trump would have ended the war by now".

    The fact is... Trump hired a guy who is admitting to be tasked with destabilizing the Ukrainian government prior to Russia's invasion. How anyone can argue with a straight face that Trump is better for European peace with Moscow is fascinating. Had Trump won in 2020, Russia would have easily toppled Ukraine, there would be uprisings left and right in Ukraine, and Russia would be turning it's sights on the other former Soviet states which would have led to a much higher likelihood of war with Russia.

    That's just a clear cut fact at this point.
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,253
    Likes Received:
    9,223
    who is arguing that?
     
  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,675
    Likes Received:
    22,394
    So you agree that Trump being president destabilizes Europe and would likely factor in higher risk levels for expanded wars in the coming years?

    If I had a dollar every time that someone on Fox or whatnot said that if Trump was president Ukraine wouldn’t be at war etc. I’d be a rich man.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    Unfortunately, I think you're right...and it's made worse by the mass exodus of people out of Russia who might otherwise be the group of people that would help undermine him at home. Not that I blame them for leaving, of course!
     
    Amiga likes this.
  16. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,302
    Likes Received:
    4,646
     
  17. London'sBurning

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    4,817
  18. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    Completely unsurprising.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    You stated:

    You want the conflict to end. You want Putin gone. You don't want the US involved because you don't think it will help, but if we are involved, you think we should only give them the best weapons so they have the best chance to fight (nevermind that they need both). Except when Elon says he's going to intentionally disable features to make it harder for Ukraine to fight, you praise that as well.

    You're running around in circles with the goals just being (1) criticize the US and (2) defend Elon.

    Putin's staked his whole career and life on winning this war. If you want Putin removed, the way Russians will do it is if he fails and is destroying Russia. If he takes Ukraine - or significant parts of it - he declares victory and strengthens his grip on the country.

    Your "Hope Russia replaces Putin" and "pushing Russia out of Ukraine should not be the goal" are not compatible. If the latter happens, the former does not.
     
    Nook and FranchiseBlade like this.
  20. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    Oh, and Russia is concurrently fomenting a revolution in Moldova, so the whole "he'll just stop at Ukraine" thing is proving as silly as it sounded a year ago.
     

Share This Page