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In DEFENSE of Alperen Sengun - Analysis on why Sengun may already be an above average defender

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Medicine N Music, Feb 7, 2023.

  1. Ankara1923

    Ankara1923 Member

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    We are lucky to have this kids. I try to figure out a name for people being fan of this duo_Options:
    -Guntarians
    -Guntarists
    -Shentarians
    -Sengunatics plus
    -(T&S)OFs
    -????

    Anyway, sooner or later we will all be fans of this duo. Hope JGreen and Jabari catch them, '23 pick fits and we keep KJM and TyTy. This core will bring us 3 rings in a decade starting from 2026 campaign.
     
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  2. marky :)

    marky :) Member

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    Yo if you want to gain followers for your twitter do it the old fashion way and just link it to OFs or something instead of just reposting here.
     
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  3. Medicine N Music

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    Advanced defensive stats are not meaningless. Pull up any of the stats I mentioned and MOST (not all) the players you expect to be good defenders are on there.

    I did compare Sengun to starting centers, so I'm not sure what you mean as all of my analysis is comparing him to Embiid, Allen, etc. You mentioned "defensive anchor". It seems your definition of this is a player that can block/alter shots. First, players are shooting worse against Sengun at the rim (and within 6 ft) than Embiid, Adebayo, and even Mobley. Moreover, the defensive anchors are a dime a dozen (does Bruno count?) and Gobert who is the ultimate defensive anchor couldn't even stay on the floor against us or the Warriors. If Sengun had his offensive skills and Gobert's defense, he would be the 1st pick?

    Obviously every team has combinations that are elite. Sengun's defensive ratings are pretty good if you take out Green, KPJ, and Jabari. The point was to say Sengun is at least an average defender, if not above average.

    This is exactly the time to post this thread, as the "eye test" will deceive many fans. If you see Sengun get "cooked" on 3 straight plays, most fans would conclude that he's bad on defense.

    What if Sengun did exactly what he was asked to do? If he left Sabonis, Sabonis would have scored, if he stayed, the perimeter defender yesterday either was too late, got lost, or contested poorly. Also, the Sabonis/Fox pick and roll is very good (well Sabonis + anyone pick and roll is elite). What about Silas? There were no adjustments or poor adjustments, so we can't expect great results.
     
  4. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    This is why you can't just isolate defensive effectiveness on a single player. It depends a lot on the type of teammates he plays with. The most ideal defensive player is one who is versatile in most situations. Sengun is clearly not a versatile defender. But that doesn't mean he can't be effective on defense in the right situations.

    And IQ is often overlooked. Defensive IQ is real. Physically limited guys like Chuck Hayes can be a good defender because his defensive IQ is through the roof.
     
  5. Ankara1923

    Ankara1923 Member

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    Sengun is limited in some but also well-above than the other NBA players in some areas.
    His legs much more muscled than the other NBA players which give him upper-hand in footwork. Just check next time how skinny others' leg if you compare to Alp's.When Alp fixes his foot no one can move him. He is much superior. His big torso also help him for balancing.

    His weight (110 kgs) is similar to Markkanen, much more than Mobley type of players and he can accomodate more muscles.

    Markkanen was a kind of outcast till he started to play next to 2 bigs, JAllen and EMobley in Cavs and Kelly and Jarred in Jazz. We should see Alpi together with 2 bigs also or wait Jabari to be better defender.

    As Rockets was bombarded/bulldozed by the opposing guards and opposing centers (except Jokic and Embiid) were limited, the main issue is to discuss guards' defence, not Alp's.
     
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  6. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    hahahaha!!! Guntarians is hilarious!!!!
     
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  7. Ankara1923

    Ankara1923 Member

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    Give little bit Teutonic vibe because of Gunther/Gunter. Anyway Gunter Grass was a very good writer and I will go for Guntarian.

    Welcome to the club, "Club of Guntarians".
     
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  8. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Medicine N Music

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    You're absolutely correct that there are some names that are seemly out of place. I am especially glad that you brought up Jokic. I don't think anyone knows why exactly Jokic is so highly rated by advanced stats, but it is clear that when he's on the court the opposing team scores way less points (per 100 possessions).

    What's even more amazing is that the Nuggets doesn't have many elite defenders. Aaron Gordon and KCP are above average, but Porter Jr and Murray are not good, so we can't say his team mainly contributes to the defensive ratings. Also, when Jokic is off the floor, the Nugget's defense is a lot worse, which is another indicator

    There are many ways to look at defense, but I think the older perspective of a greater defender at center being someone that only alters and blocks shots is out. If I had to guess, it's a combination of factors that doesn't show up on traditional box scores.

    We know about deflections, charges, and other items you can track, but what about defensive rotations and forcing someone into a non-ideal shot? What if the opposing team's defender on Jokic has to spend so much energy guarding him that they're fatigued on offense? I don't think anyone knows why Jokic is an advanced stats star on defense, but I'd bet there are many more factors that contributes to defense. Hopefully we'll figure something out in the next few years.
     
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  10. AroundTheWorld

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    Because net rating is what matters.

    If someone is a great defender, but with him on the court we never score any points, so the net rating is -20, then what's the point?

    If someone gives up more points, but consistently the team scores more points with him on the floor than it gives up, then we win.
     
  11. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    It wasn't so much that Sengun got "cooked" as it is that his defensive deficiency was exposed. We have the game plan to have him *not* switch a PnR because he's too slow-fotted to do so. So instead he drops back when his man is setting a PnR.

    This resulted in Huerter and Murray (not Fox) getting wide open 3s when their defenders were forced to try to fight through the excellent picks set by Sabonis.

    The best adjustment Silas could make is to try to hide Sengun on some other player who wouldn't be involved in any offensive action, but I don't know who that would have been last night. So he stuck with Sengun going against Sabonis and we all saw what happened.
     
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  12. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Rockets play drop, that’s the coach’s defensive scheme. Sengun is too slow to switch on to Fox, but it was Murray who was burning us with those 3s. Sengun switched onto Murray plenty of times throughout the game but for some reason on dribble hand offs Silas refused to change his scheme.
     
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  13. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    BS. Sengun can switch onto Murray just fine. Also Sabonis never switched onto any of our guards, plenty of teams in the NBA play drop, even elite defensive teams like Milwaukee.
     
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  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    He does well when he is in the paint by standing tall, and blocking a shot now and again and rebounding, where he struggles is in PnR situations they have him dropping in coverage and it leaves WIDE OPEN shots on the perimeter - that is not Alpi's fault it is how Silas has designed it, in part to protect Alpi....but it isn't working.

    The team only half ass helps.....and it just leaves open shot after open shot.

    DD
     
  15. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Jabari was the one who couldn’t fight over a screen to save his life. That was the issue in the drop coverage, not Sengun. Forcing Murray into a driver and playmaker would have been fine.
     
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  16. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    None of what I wrote was BS. Maybe Sengun *could* have switched onto Huerter but he didn't. Whether that's because he chose not to or because Silas told him not to, I have no idea. Did they talk about it in the post game conference? I didn't watch.

    Sabonis never had to switch on our guards because we're the worst shooting team in the league.
     
  17. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    Sabonis was setting excellent screens. But many people do in the NBA - which is why bigs who can switch on defense are so important.

    For sure though, it would be better if Jabari could get around the screens better.
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Jokic is light on his feet like Tyson Fury -- Sengun is a plodder -- it is what it is... can't compare the two.

    Sengun is quick with the ball in his hands on offense, but he's going to need help on defense.
     
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  19. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Did you read the OP?

    Specifically this:
    and this:
    Now re-read your post. The OP didn't say Sengun was "so great" nor do the stats. He also mentions that reputation doesn't seem to align with statistics. So who are you replying to?
     
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  20. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    I'd rather an opposing center score 2's than give up the amount of threes we do each game. We weren't getting blown out of every game until we started this drop coverage BS. It needs to change ASAP.
     
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