I advocate acceptance extends to the point it adversely affects others. The person in the tweet has no right to be in that private space if they’re unwelcome.
We are in agreement. I am trying to understand what @Nook is advocating for. He is mocking @droxford's posts, but I don't understand yet what @Nook actually thinks would be appropriate - let biological males compete against women? Allow biological males into women's changing rooms? I don't think anyone on this entire thread is advocating for any kind of discrimination against transgender people, but where does "inclusion" end? @droxford's point is valid, in my opinion, which is exactly what you are saying - acceptance extends to the point it adversely affects others. For me, that point is reached in the examples of letting biological males compete in women's sports and letting them enter women's changing rooms. In addition, personally, I think people should be allowed to identify as whatever they want to, but I am not committing violence if I address them as what they appear to be to me.
Just want to call it out again because @FranchiseBlade is exactly right. You only prop up a group as a tool to hate on another group. It never comes from sincerity. Your heart is black.
Her opinion should be heard and there is some validity to it. There is an intersectional divide between two minorities - biological women and transgender women. Biological women face a lot of discrimination and difficulties that biological men do not. As a result, biological women often confide with other biological women, compete with other biological women and have a culture that is arguably the most important in the world, but is seldom acknowledged by men. Now, not only are women being told that they must put their own opinions on hold, and not speak out that they have concerns with transwomen being entirely included in what it means to be a woman and the culture and subculture - but they are being called bigots if they make any statement. Transgender rights do not trump the rights of biological women, because the world is 50% made up of biological women. It is biological women, not men or transgendered women that have concerns or fear - or feel that they can't differentiate or discuss things like child-birth, having periods, menopause or what it is like to grow up as a woman because it isn't 100% inclusive. I believe there is also an element of male entitlement at play here. We hear VERY little about transgendered men having issues and I firmly believe that is because they were born and in most cases raised as boys and are used to social entitlement, that those raised as girls simply do not have.
I think his point is the same point everyone is making. You and people like you spamming trans ills on society over and over and over is not normal. You can have a sincere desires to understand the very few women on this planet that have had their high school division lor league or whatever lost to a transgender but turning this into the issue of the century is the same tactic that Nazis used on people they didn't like. Find a couple of incidents or practices from a marginalized group and spam or over and over and over and over and over and over until the public feels as if that group is an existential threat.
Can I just say that I think this entire post is bs? That woman is a abject grifter. She has no sincere thoughts. She found a hot clock baity topic that works well with the current algorithms and found a niche to generate clout. She's a mod women's professional skateboarder who lost to a ten year old girl. She has no history of women's activism before. Why do you have such high level trust ar face value over these media grifters? Why dude? You are a old man who was a lawyer. You are supposed to be wise. And who is telling women to hold their rights for trans people? Why are you buying into dumbass right wing talking points? The issue isn't the few dozen women on this planet not winning first place in their respective division because of some transgender. The issue is people making this issue into a 10 at the same level of rent skyrocketing or wealth inequality not because they care about women but because they hate trans people. What you are doing is assuming the vast majority of people who say they care about women sports and women rights when they attack trans people as sincere. Yet those same exact people make WNBA jokes all the time and insult women sports. Is that a coincidence? Stop buying into this hoarshit. You are smarter than this.
What about other girls who received the benefit of professional sports trainers from a young age? Or girls who are measurably at a signifiant physical advantage because of their genes? It would also be unfair to have to compete against them. Sports, like life, isn't always fair. You try to put in place rules to even things up as much as you can, but excluding entire categories of people from participating under the same rules because they have presumed physical advantages is not the right approach as a general rule. Gendered professional sports leagues should give some opportunities for transgender athletes who have taken significant steps to transition their bodies to be able to participate in the league that matches their gender identity. I think that's a pretty reasonable compromise. But ultimately the parameters that are acceptable for that league should be broadly agreed on by the women who participate in it.
The amount of transgender people would make a difference if they were all participating in athletic leagues related to their transitioned genders. And even then it isn't always an advantage or disadvantage. The amount of people truly affected by this issue is incredibly minimal.
From my friends and peers who are very right leaning to online discourse, the same exact people who meme about the WNBA and how much it sucks are the same exact people harping about this trans issue and how it negatively affects the sanctity of women's sports. It's a joke. How a single person buys into the sincerity of these people is baffling to me.
Not even remotely the same thing, and it is ridiculous to even have to explain it. I am not surprised that the most fervent advocates for biological males competing against girls are...biological males...and I think none of them have daughters, or children.
From my experience the most fervent preachers on this subject and how it fails women, are the same exact people who meme about the WNBA and make fun of women's sports. Also they are the same exact group of my former peers who were absolutely furious that the federal government lifted the restrictions on women in direct combat occupations ending the all boys club. So many butt hurt egos who now can't tell people their profession is male only because of how rigorous it was. Ya those same exact people all of a sudden care about women's feelings losing in their divisional class in their respective sports. Yes this makes totally perfect sense.
No.... it isn't as simple as setting world records. The measure is whether it is an unfair advantage. "In the 2018–2019 season she was, when competing in the men's team, ranked 554 in the 200 freestyle, 65 in the 500 freestyle, and 32 in the 1650 freestyle. In the 2021–2022 season, those ranks are now, when competing in the women's team, 5 in the 200 freestyle, first in the 500 freestyle, and eight in the 1650 freestyle" Lia went from 554th as a male in 200 freestyle to 2nd as a female........ Lia also went from 65th in the 500 freestyle to 1st. That is a massive improvement, regardless of whether it sets records. Now, I have heard from transgendered people that hormones negatively impact performance if you are transitioning to being a male - and I do not doubt that, but at least in the case of Lia, it was a massive advantage as far as standing in her event, even if her overall times did not improve, because they were greatly improved as a compared to women. I don't know what the solution is. I am all for inclusivity - but there are at times disadvantages for those born female, and that needs to be acknowledged.
And how often does this issue happen? How does it impact socioeconomics in a macro scale? How does it harm women in a macro scale compared to the lack of early childhood development resources or out current economic system forcing single mothers to work 50 hour weeks? Ask these questions and then ask yourself if the amount of time dedicated to this subject matches real life impact and if it doesn't ask yourself why it doesn't and then ask yourself what is the motive of the people making this a disproportionate issue relative to impact.
No, leave it up to the women competing in the events to decide. It is kind of a problem that we have men again trying to establish what and how women should and should not feel on a topic that impacts us very little, but impacts women potentially far more.
I'm sorry dude but this is the lowest tier of issue that is impacting the average woman on this planet being harmed by a patriarchal system.
This is something that will inevitably have to be hashed out in courts again and again since laws are heavier laggards than social progress/understanding. The only thing unfortunate imo is the private spa eating the "social cost". I hope they receive external funding and aren't economically impacted by the lawsuit.
The whole argument of "you have to cater to every whim of transgender people because suicide rates" is ridiculous. It's a blackmail argument. "You must allow this biological male into women's changing rooms because otherwise he and other transgender people will kill themselves". Come the **** on.
How many reported sexual assaults by transgender people in locker rooms and bathrooms on unsuspecting cis female bathroom goers? And we can expand the time range to.. All of time so you have ample opportunity to make a case to be rationally fearful rather than feeling icky based on id emotions.
I am advocating for sincere and honest discussion, which is overall lacking. I hear a lot of excuses and a lot of insincerity from people on both sides of this issue. Worrying about people identifying as cats or different races or ages is silly. It isn't a big issue and it isn't going to be one. We have had a small group of people that have done this for literally thousands of years. From a social perspective it is not an issue. We need to accept that there are transgendered and/or gender fluid people. These people should not be harmed or discriminated against, just like any other minority. On the other hand, the rights of the transgendered need to be weighed against the rights of other oppressed groups, such as women. We need to acknowledge that recognizing transgendered people causes issues in arenas such as women's athletics. I hear liberals claim it isn't a concern, it IS a concern and saying it isn't one doesn't change that. We also have to admit if our social solution is to ignore the concerns of biological women and tell them their concerns are not as important as social change. I hear a lot of people just talking over each other. Hearing someone compare transgendered people to those that identify as cats is infuriating......... so is hearing people complain that "breast feeding" is not inclusive enough and it should be called "chest feeding". We also need to understand the difference between gender and sex, and neither side of the debate wants to differentiate. Both sides are trying to change the definition of the terms to suit their political motives. People should be able to have honest discourse without being shouted down .... that is more of a liberal problem, but I have seen it on the other side as well. People need to stop scouring social media for the most extreme positions and attribute that to an entire group .... that is more of a conservative problem, but I have seen the other side do it as well.
