I dont know what Russia's propaganda is and I dont watch Tucker Carlson, so you will have to fill me in on the deets before I can agree to that statement. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1977-1980/soviet-invasion-afghanistan The United States taught the Taliban on how to defeat the Soviet Union, and later used those same tactics on the United States. We essentially created the Taliban, came back 20 years later and 'defeated' them only to hand the country right back over to them. We armed them and gave them a blue print on how to defeat us. What makes you think Ukraine is going to turn out any different?
Not really. Afghanistan isn't like Europe, S. Korea, or Japan where we can rebuild and modernize after a major war. The Taliban merely had to outlast the US in an unconventional war. Modern America doesn't indiscriminately kill civilians in order to kill the Taliban that live among them. The Afghanistan War was always going to fail as we should have killed as many Taliban as possible in a couple of years then got out.
Sure - that's because Ukraine is fighting on their own turf. But western mililtaries know a hell of a lot more about Russian weaponry, capabilities, have satellite and intelligence, etc. Western militaries shouldn't be fighting the war, but they can help in many ways on the strategic and tactical side of things.
For starters, Ukraine is a functioning democracy. Afghanistan wasn't and has never been. You do know warlords are different than the Ukrainian government, right? And that we aren't secretly training random rebels? Or is this another basic thing you haven't figured out?
What I've heard from people that were over there until the holidays.... they should pull out of Bakhmut. They are taking too many casualties fighting over the same fields with limited strategic value if they do "win". An AWOL Navy SEAL fighting for Ukraine was killed in Bakhmut this week.
Ukraine knows a hell of a lot more about Russian capabilities. they use Russian weaponry, for the most part, and until relatively recently, trained on Russian doctrine/tactics, plus they've been fighting the Russians and their proxies for the past 8 years.
"...its different this time." You do understand the mission objective of Iraq and Afghanistan was to expel and destroy the infidels and install a 'functional democracy'? That is hilarious. We do not have a mission objective in Ukraine. Let That Sink In. Biden administration at least learned that its not wise to have a massive "mission accomplished" banner flying on a photo op. But I am sure the next Democrat war mongering president in 2029 will be all about "we just need a surge" like 2009 Obama. Almost a year later, we are sending in heavy armor reserves even when we are 'winning'. This isn't about being pro Putin or whatever idiotic nonsense leftists like to portray. Its a simple observation of the signs our country walking down the well worn path of yet another proxy war.
If you can’t tell the difference between the Taliban and a democratically elected administration that openly wants to join NATO and is now joining the EU, then I don’t think there’s really a way to have a serious back and forth with you. Ukraine thriving as a Western democracy with major exports and human capital is a net gain for the global economy. If Ukraine is brought into the fold after securing its border from Russia, they’ll have a lot to lose if they for some reason decide to turn on the West… especially because they are part of the West at that point. Yes if they elect an autocrat and become corrupt they could become an issue in the future but guess what???… the same could be said for the United F-ing States in 2024 when enough people who claim to be independent voters make up some BS justification for actually considering voting for Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene. So of course Ukraine joining the west is a risk… but they also have a sh$t ton to lose if they turn their back on democracy and partnerships with the free world. Ukraine isn’t the Taliban and it’s incredibly ignorant of you if you really do believe that which I’m sure you don’t. I think you are just gaslighting and trying to toy with the libs to create self questioning. You are gaslighting to try and get Democrats to essentially turn on Biden. It’s fairly obvious to see your games.
Ukraine is a country. Afghanistan is a country. The Taliban is a far right wing theocracy. No matter of your programming to believe Afghanistan is a **** hole country, Afghanistan is a resource rich country with a similar population size that deserves respect and basic human rights just like Ukraine. The Afghans under Taliban control are under more duress than the Ukrainians will ever be under Russia but you are perfectly find with Biden leaving them to their own fate (as am I). Ukraine can do whatever they want with the EU. That is irrelevant. NATO has strict restrictions that many countries simply do not want to uphold, including Ukraine. "Turning on the west" is not the issue. Having weak countries inside your alliance can create divisions within the alliance, just like the United States is now doing with Ukraine.
Are you really arguing that Russia should control Ukraine because it would be better than Afghanistan under Taliban control?
I never once said I believe Russia should control Ukraine. I implied they should be left up to their own fate, just like we do with every other conflict on this planet that global elitist do not benefit from. If Ukraine wishes to buy weapons from the United States like many other countries, that is fine. But we should not be giving free support w/out congressional approval. The United States does not care about the humanitarian efforts and people need to stop pretending they do. Otherwise we would have never left Afghanistan.
It's not left up to their own fate. That's the most ridiculous thing you've said all year. Ukraine doesn't have the capacity to defend itself against one of the largest militaries in the world. Including one with the 2nd most nuclear weapons. That would be like saying it's up to the fate of Texans if the United States military decided to invade and take over Texas after it declared independence. Do you really think the Texas national guard would be a match vs the United States Army, Marines, Navy, and Air Force? Again all you are attempting here is to gaslight. Trying to get people on the left to self doubt the right thing to do because you know liberals are typically anti-war. However we aren't F-ing stupid. We aren't CHOOSING to invade a country like we did with Iraq. Nobody from the Biden administration has ever attempted to make a case for putting a single American or NATO soldier in harms way. The VERY CLEAR objective here is to deter dictators around the globe for the next 100 years from thinking it's a good idea to further their interest politically or economically by seizing land from a neighboring sovereign country by military force. If the world sees that Russia didn't pay a price for this clear violation of global order, peace, and stability, you could see a cascading affect where countries left and right decide to further their interest by invading their neighbors. That's why this gaslighting from the right, and the far left hasn't worked. Because Democratic leaning Americans, and in other Western countries who are helping Ukraine understand that if they are fans of peace, and anti-war, then they must do what's necessary to make sure Russia loses in spectacular fashion. If peace is the end goal... Putin needs to suffer a huge loss or else there will be a cascading affect. I wish it didn't have to be the US leading right now because honestly our reputation isn't the greatest. I wish the UN could do more... but right now we are the best we got to hold the peace. So stop trying to gaslight, and talk to people here like you respect their intelligence.
The good news January is not even over and I have yet to hit my premium content. lel wot? Texas can not succeed w/out congressional approval. Its like 1860-1865 didn't happen in your alternate reality. Nobody is gaslighting anyone. As I said, if Ukraine wishes to purchase US weapons at a fair price like all other countries, great! Otherwise, get congressional approval. These are very authoritarian decisions not being approved by our representatives. And you are ok with that when your team is in office.
I think that from the Ukranian perspective pulling out of Bakhmut just means that the engagement moves to the next town down.
Sobering factoids: Officially, roughly 8.6 million Soviet soldiers died in the course of the war and World War II losses of the Soviet Union from all related causes were about 27,000,000 both civilian and military, although exact figures are disputed. A figure of 20 million was considered official during the Soviet era. Rumor has it that Putin's next mobilization will be larger than the last. It appears that as long as Putin has men to send he will send them. if Russia loses Crimea, one should not be surprised that Putin will just send more men and not surrender.
I'm not at all convinced that the Russian federation has the logistical capacity to field an army of that size. I get the sense Russia doesn't have the logistical capacity to field the army they are currently fielding. They are already emptying their prisons looking for soldiers and they cannot even arm and equip them. The notion that Russian is going to soon have a massive conscription drive and field a massive new army capable of doing anything is an absolute fantasy.
Having criticisms of the U.S. involvement in Ukraine =/= wanting Putin to win or being a Putin shill. Talk about disingenuous.
