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Kamala is no joke; will vote for her again

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, Jul 2, 2021.

  1. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    No. I am also about getting rid of regulations and extraconstitutional laws. Perhaps you pay a small amount of taxes. I am taxed quite heavily and it is very burdensome. The amount I pay in taxes far exceeds any benefits I receive from government.
    You would be wrong. Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico all have "Interstate" highways.
    Great. I am happy to pay a reasonable use rate for any road I drive on. I am quite sure tranportation costs are already included in the price of goods and services and it would not be hard to adjust prices to accommodate toll based vs. tax based roads. All this is a bit of a red herring, because Interstate highways are a tiny fraction of national expenditures, but even so the funding for them could be fixed to better connect usage to payment.
    If there are no federally funded highways, people and businesses will adjust accordingly. The average cost to maintain a highway is about 14,000 per mile per year. How many cars and trucks would you imagine drive on a normal 100 mile stretch of highway per year? A million? Two? 10? Let's say just a million. That would mean each driver would pay on average a buck forty for highway maintenance. Even if it was only 100,000 cars per year on average, it would only be fourteen bucks a year. Long haul trucking would pay more. Someone that drives 200 miles a year would pay less. This is how it was meant to be done anyway, because highway maintenance is supposed to be paid by gasoline excise taxes. Making it explicitly by vehicle travel on highways would accomodate electric vehicles and eliminate taxes on things like boats and generators that don't use the highway system.
    Happy to entertain you.
    Yes, by eliminating interstate tariffs, providing a mail system, and building a military. It is almost like they wrote down all the stuff the federal government is supposed to do.
     
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  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    [​IMG]
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Except in your daily life it is very rare that you need government services that doesn't mean that in an emergency you want need to a fire department or other rescue services. It doesn't mean that a presence of a police force isn't helping to keep your property safe or a Federal Transportation system isn't keeping planes from crashing on your head.
    Relying on toll roads established by private companies is a similar problem to the insterstate tarriffs. With a different structure of tolls is a drag on interstate commerce and we saw a very visible example of what happens when a state decides to interfere with interstate / International commerce this past year when Abbott decided to search trucks coming in from Mexico. By most accounts that ended up costing Texas and the US economy billions.

    Further under Article I section 8 it does give Congress the power to establish "post roads' what else are insterstates but post roads. Section 8 also gives Congress to regulate trade between states and other countries. Ports and other facilities are the infrastructure needed for such trade.
     
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    If everyone is paying the same level of sales tax for things like milk but we do not pay income tax who does it favor?

    I don’t think we should even entertain this debate quite honestly. The right’s obsession with sacrificing their firstborn to the alter of billionaires never ceases to amaze me. You guys literally want to HARM YOURSELF in order to “own the Libs.”
     
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  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I say that as someone who recently jumped up in the next tax bracket and has had to unload the savings account two years in a row paying taxes instead of getting a refund and taking my family on a vacation or buying the new blackstone I can’t seem to get free cash to buy for some reason.
     
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  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Also Joe Biden is still no joke, and I will still be proudly voting for him again instead of Trump.
     
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  7. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    A police force can be funded through fines and fees. In fact, a good portion of police funding comes from that. It is one of the dual purposes of tickets. The police are also terrible at protecting property. Property crimes have the lowest clearance rates and frequently don't even draw an actual response, you just fill out a report online.

    Fire departments can work just like health insurance. You pay a small monthly/annual fee and have a reasonable deductible if they are required to respond. Also 2/3 of firefighters are volunteer. The FAA/ATC is not preventing aircraft from crashing on your head, unless you live in very close proximity to a major airport. The cost of ATC can also be collected as part of the price of air travel so the burden of paying for it falls on those who use it.
    Not if all roads are toll roads. California has toll roads and toll lanes and toll bridges and they don't really cause problems. You just get a bill either through an app or through the mail for your usage. There are no hours long delays from the tolls (which was the problem with the inspections in Texas), you just get access to a route or lane or bridge for a small fee. You also don't have to have private toll roads. Public toll roads are common. It is just a more direct way of funding the road.
    A lot? Did you think only mail delivery is taking place on Interstates? Largely they are commercial arteries.
    Regulate interstate commerce, yes. Building and maintaining ports is not regulation of commerce. Telling Virginia they can't tax goods coming in from Maryland is regulating interstate commerce.
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    So what happens in a town where people are really good drivers and barely speed or do things that generate fines?

    I mean big government can fine the most trivial stuff ever to generate that revenue at all costs I guess.


    What is the data on clearance rates per range of value of possession lost?

    Law enforcement is an arm of corporations in most cases.
     
  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Such towns likely require less policing.
    There are fines and fees associated with criminal convictions. So when the police are called and arrest someone, when that person is convicted, that can also help pay for the cost of the police. Most of the fines are things like speeding, parking, and failure to obey traffic signals.d
    I don't know how that data could be calculated. For 2019, the most recent UCR available, property crime generally has a clearance rate of 17.2 percent. "Among property crimes, 18.4 percent of larceny-theft offenses, 14.1 percent of burglary offenses, and 13.8 percent of motor vehicle theft offenses were cleared." Robbery is a hybrid violent/property crime and has a higher clearance rate of 30.5 percent, which is still very low. I suppose an average vehicle is worth more than property stolen through larceny generally, so based on that you might say higher value thefts have a lower clearance rate, but that is putting in a lot of speculation.
    No, law enforcement is an arm of the government in most cases. That's why you don't call WalMart when your car is stolen or your husband beats you, you call the police/sheriff.
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Govt is the arm of corporations.

    So many laws on things like homeless are treated is so corporations can have clean looking store fronts. That's one example of corporations dictate policy and therefore how our law enforcement handles enforcement.
     
  11. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    You just said we have laws against homelessness because of corporations and then you wonder why bernie could never win over a single voter over his Medicare for all positions.

    Do you have any idea how out of touch you are? Do u think the normie voter who actually votes is for pro homelessness? Are you insane?

    Government is an arm of corporate America? Really?
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Your commie nonsense doesn't resonate with most people. Normal Americans don't want to be accosted by schizophrenics and drug addicts on the sidewalk or trek through garbage, feces, needles, and God knows what else to get to the end of the block. It has nothing to do with corporations. Your complaints are especially bizarre, because the law/government favors the homeless. 40 years ago, people panhandling would be run out of town or arrested for vagrancy. Now they have a right to camp on public sidewalks unless the city can prove there are shelter beds available to every homeless person (and requiring that they not be on drugs means not available to them, btw). You think Target wants 10 homeless people outside their store asking their customers for money going in and coming out? That McDonald's wants a guy begging in the drive-thru when he isn't shooting up in front of kids?
     
  13. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    There is absolutely no doubt that a vast group of politicians are funded by, and owned by, corporations and/or the superrich.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Yes? I sincerely thought that was obvious?

    Bernie Sanders? What?
     
  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Again that's completely different than claiming the entire government is a corporate wing. No **** there's bad folks in both parties but the level of nihilism and anti America that lefties have is why nobody ever wants to be associated with them even on topics they agree with (health insurance).

    General public and normie voters like having clean sidewalks and not having hobos approach them. It doesn't make then bad people. To think that everything the government does is to please corporations is so effin stupid.

    Look at what's happening in San Fran. Thry already recalled their last DA and on verge of doing it again. People lkke safe and walkable streets. It's not some corporate talking point to protect their store fronts.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

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    I disagree 100% that lefties are more anti-America than the right. Pushing for progress and trying to correct errors is very American and shows a love for the nation.

    Trying to overturn a democratic election, delight over suppressing votes and things like that done by the right is far more Anti-American.

    Who is more likely to sport the Confederate flag which represents armed rebellion against America? Right Wingers are much more likely to sport that.

    For the record, Houston has a greater increase in violent crime than San Francisco.
    https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compar...,+CA&country2=United+States&city2=Houston,+TX
     
  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    When did I say they were more anti America than the right?? Do you mind quoting me where I said that? Also lina hidalgo almost lost in Houston after Houston going solid for biden in 2020..

    Also harris country is out of control because we have ridiculous gun laws in this state and it'll never get better. IMO, you can't be anti crime while being pro gun. They go hand in hand which i have no faith for Houston.

    The only point I was making is Americans like to feel safe and like seeing clean sidewalks. It's not a "corporate talking point" that Americans don't like homelessness. They want their leaders to provide housing and/or health services to the homeless. Americans are good hearted by nature.

    Claiming that banning homelessness is somehow being done because you want corporate windows to look clean is so utterly insane of a talking point.
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    You sound like one of those people who were pushing for defund the police. Yes LE has a poor record dealing with property crime there are still a lot of other crimes like murder for inistance. If someone was trying to kill you I'm guessing you would still be willing to call 911 and not have them check to see if you paid for them.
    Historically there were private fire departments even in large cities like NYC the problem was that they wouldn't respond to properties that didn't pay and since fire doesn't tend to stay contained on it's own that would lead to bigger problems. They also would compete with other fire departments in some cases brawling with a competitor fire department over customer base.

    Also I find a libertarian citing volunteer firefighters as an odd argument. That's counting on free labor and the charity of others.

    There have been people on the ground killed by plane crashes. There have been fires caused by plane crashes that have spread to other structures not hit by the planes. In many major metro areas flight paths will cover much of the metro areas given that wind patterns shift and there is a lot more flights now. So yes you could never fly yet still be in danger from a plane crash.

    This goes one of the major flaws with this type of thinking. Externalities. Flight and auto safety isn't just restricted to those that fly but also bystanders who aren't on the plane or in the car. For example a car running off the road and into a store. Simply saying safety issues is the sole responsibility of those who use those ignores that there are externalities beyond just the users.
    SO why not then just make every road a toll road? Why not just put a toll on your block that you and your neighbors pay and then you charge people who happen to drive down the street. I think you understand this leads to a lot of inefficiencies and difficulties.
    and mail isn't delivered on commercial arteries?
    Yes proper maintenance and ease of access is considered in regulation. It is in the interest of the country to make sure that ports function safely, and are conducive to trade. Further given that shipping ports, airports and etc are also needed to maintain a navy, air force and to move troops and resources it does also fall under the Constitutional purview of the federal government for collective defense.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Except didn't you say it's small businesses that have this dictatorial sense ot entitlement and are the ones to blame for the homeless problem?
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I am having a separate debate with @fchowd0311 regarding business and homelessness. The problem that I see though is that under a libertarian system there would be far more homelessness including homeless on the street. There will be a lot of economic uncertainty and dislocation especially regarding housing that far more people will lose their houses.

    Besides that though just based on what you're arguing there regarding police power is under a system where LE is financed through things like user fees there is even less impetus for authorities to deal with things like vagrancy and public nuisance if it is happening in an area where property owners aren't paying to have those addressed. So while Big Box stores like Kroger or Target might be able to pay for LE and/or other private security to chase off homeless from in front of their businesses smaller businesses like tiendas or neighborhood cafes might not. What that means is that the homeless chased off of from infront of large businesses just end up being infront of small businesses or even residential neighborhoods.
     
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