And that makes Embiid sound like a selfish, me type of guy. Being doubled opens up your teammates, which leads to open shots, which leads to winning. But nooooooo, being doubled means I can’t iso and get mine. What a chump. Kid hasn’t won anything at all and disrespecting his superiors in every way.
LOL, what? Any time you can find a way to make your BEST player being doubled less, you do it. It's not like he's just camping outside of 3pt line and shooting low percentage 3 pointers all game.
You make your best player doubled less by busting the double every time. That’s a selfish mentality. And Embiid plays on the perimeter and outside the paint quite a bit. Any coach would welcome the double if it meant easy shots for the open man.
And Embiid also has a ton of talent around him. Shooters and scorers. Harden, Maxey, Harris, Melton and Milton. If they’re doubling Embiid, that’s easy scoring for the others. And leading to wins. But of course Embiid would care about his numbers first.
LOL not only he didnt win anything despite always being on stacked multiple allstar teams, and MVP alongside him...he was almost always just a 1st round or 2nd round fodder LOLOLOL
Yeah I don’t get it. He shouldn’t be disrespecting Olajuwon or Shaq, he hasn’t earned the right to speak to them or about them. Embiid is Uber talented, earn it and stop whining.
You clearly don't watch games. Embiid is not a very accurate or mobile passer out of the post. He also gets bodied a lot which makes it hard to throw in a good entry pass. Most of last season, it would take him 10 seconds out of the shot clock to fight the other center for low post position, only to be doubled and causing erratic passes. Embiid doesn't even play on the perimeter. He has been spamming PnR's with Hard at the elbow or slightly inside the free throw line, and it's literally automatic because he can hit a uncontested jumper or just get a straight up dunk on a roll. It's also easier to turn a failed PnR into a post up without someone coming to double. Hell even Jokic doesn't post up all that much, he much prefers operating out of the elbow because he has way more options and can see cutters shooters a lot better.
I’m not even a post up only guy. There has to be multiple ways to score. Shooting, post up, face up, inside, outside. That’s what makes elite offensive players. But to just say post up isn’t a thing is dumb, paint points are a premium along with 3s imo.
Yes, I watch his games. Did I say post up only? Is that the only place teams double? No, it’s not. I also didn’t say perimeter only, he plays on the perimeter a lot. His shot chart alone proves this. He also plays short corners and elbows a lot, outside of the paint. If a man his size can’t body up anyone in the league, he shouldn’t be a primary focus. Sorry.
They normally start their offense from the perimeter with an Embiid/Harden PnR. But Embiid’s favorite spot is the elbow. That’s hardly perimeter. He gets open jumpers all day in the elbow area and makes good portion of it. I don’t know what you’re arguing against.
Elbow jumpers are closer to perimeter oriented than near the basket. That’s pretty obvious. Im not arguing anything, you quoted me. I’m saying Embiid is disrespecting players far superior than him. And doubles aren’t a bad thing, unless you’re mad you can’t get points.
That's not what it is. Post up is less effective than in the past because unlike in the 80s and 90s, you can double a guy without the ball. That's how they neutralized Yao. After they got rid of the illegal defense, it got harder to get the big man the ball in the low post. Embiid is pushing back against people who say big center must do post up as his main weapon. That doesn't mean he should never post up. It just means that you can't do it every time down the floor because the opponent can easily game plan for it. It makes it much harder to defend if the big man can do a variety of things instead of just one thing. That's what makes guys like Embiid and Jokic so lethal.
Sengun is not a post only player. He gets the ball near the top of the key or is involved in a PNR around there most of the time. If gets post position he is money so why not give him the ball when he is there? If he develops a 3 ptr he is clearly an offensive all-star. Defense especially the fouling needs work and help from the perimeter. He just turned 20 and some guys are expecting him to be a finished product on that end of the floor, with a coach that could care less about the horrible defense his 3 guard lineup is producing. We are going to lose this year anyway. We should be starting Eason over Gordon to add the length at the SF slot. That’s all I heard in the offense was we need wing defensive players. We drafted Bari and Tari and half the board wants Bari benched and Gordon is getting minutes in a pure development year.
you are literally not making sense. What is the goal of playing basketball. Is it to put the ball into the basket? Embiid is averaging 33 points a game on 64% TS and is now playing the most efficient basketball in his career because he is eating teams alive with short jumpers and by rolling to the basket. but DURRR he is not getting doubled, therefore he shouldn't be a primary focus. Yeah it totally makes sense to waste shot clock and be predictable and less efficient and bang in the post just to draw doubles. What a selfish player. Playing PnR and scoring more efficiently is now considered selfish
No where did I say he should post up down the court every time. I understand the rules in todays game. He also settles for poor shots and inefficient shots frequently when he could go down low.
https://theathletic.com/4107335/2023/01/20/rockets-alperen-sengun-tari-eason/ What’s your grasp on him now? Sam Vecenie: Goodness. The Alperen Şengün conversation. I have so many thoughts about him. He’s one of the most interesting players in the league. He is super talented, and I’m not sure there has been a more misused player in the NBA this season. He also has some real flaws that could crater some of his value. But let’s dive into all of what is a complicated topic. I don’t think Houston’s offense and its guard configuration get the most out of him. He’d be best in more of a dribble handoff, heavy movement scheme where he’s constantly in motion and empowered to make decisions on the fly. Right now, he doesn’t get that chance with the overdribbling that often happens from the perimeter players. Half the time, he’s screening and then short-rolling, and because the guards don’t hit him often enough (and to an extent, because he can’t shoot), teams crowd the paint and collapse onto the guards, knowing they’re more likely to reset the offense as opposed to trying to hit Şengün. That results in him kind of taking up space and sometimes hindering the offense because he’s not getting fed the ball. I don’t think the coaching staff has the clearest vision on how to use his skill set to its utmost advantage. He’s extremely gifted as a ballhandler, passer and playmaker for his position. He has a real marginal advantage on most centers he faces off against in terms of driving and scoring. His balance is also rare among bigs. He has this array of moves he can use to get opposing bigs off balance and then the footwork to get that little edge he needs with his size disadvantage. He doesn’t generate a ton of easy shots, which can at times hinder his overall efficiency (he’s far below average in terms of finishing at the rim among centers this year in half-court settings, per Synergy). But he has tremendous touch to where he might be able to make those tough shots more often as he continues to get experience. More than that though, he’s an extremely smart player. He knows how to play. That’s a simple concept, but he fosters the right kind of ball movement and movement within the offense in the fleeting moments when he’s utilized properly. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen enough playing with Kevin Porter Jr., who as a lead guard tends to work better with a pure rim-running center. But the Rockets also shouldn’t be prioritizing Porter over Şengün. That’s a failing of this coaching staff. The best the Rockets offense has looked all season came in the recent game against the Lakers; Şengün looked like a legitimate superstar on his way to 33 points and 15 rebounds. The team used Şengün more to initiate its offense in that game, and the team needs to empower him more to do that, even if it involves not playing Porter with him. He needs to be the central force, because his game with its movement theoretically should open up holes and avenues for Jalen Green and foster his development. I largely buy who Şengün is on offense at this point if Houston would do a better job of letting him rock a bit. Why do I go back and forth on Şengün if his upside is a 20-point, 11-rebound per game player? His defense is really bad. There’s no other way to say it. He has a frightening combination of lacking lateral footspeed in space mixed with a lack of size that allows him to get pushed around and finished over the top more easily than you’d like from a potential center. He’s a smart player, so maybe he can figure something out long term. It would help him if Jabari Smith can reach his ceiling as a weakside defender who can protect the rim a bit. But he needs that, in part, because he’s a 6-foot-9 center without a ton of length or pop as an athlete. It is worth at least laying out some context on why I think Şengün is in a difficult position defensively. He does get hung out to dry by his guards, who generally struggle to fight through screens and recover, leaving him stuck to guard multiple players at once in middle ball screens. Additionally, part of Houston’s poor transition defense — maybe the biggest part of why the Rockets are a bottom-three defense in the NBA — is more based on what he and his teammates are being asked to do on the offensive glass. They seemingly send multiple guys to the glass most possessions and try to create second-chance opportunities. It has resulted in the league’s highest offensive rebounding rate. But that hasn’t led to good offense, and it has left them out to dry regularly on defense. But I also haven’t seen much from Şengün on tape or in the numbers that makes you buy into him positively on defense either. Rockets fans will point out block and steal numbers — something that does showcase some upside long term because he has good feel and hand-eye coordination — but they cover the outcomes on under 5 percent of the Rockets’ defensive possessions when he’s on the court. What happens on the other 95 percent of possessions is drastically more important? While he does end up being placed in poor spots in ball screens having to cover two while the guards try (or don’t try) to recover, he seems to get caught in no man’s land more often than bigger centers who can outstretch and use their length to cover swaths of ground in those circumstances (defending the pull-up and cutting off the driving angle while also trying to limit the passing angles to the roller). At 6-foot-9 without long arms, Şengün isn’t that guy. He allows opponents to shoot 62 percent at the rim when he’s the primary rim protector, which is 41st among the 67 centers this season who have played at least 25 games, per NBA.com. On top of that, he’s not all that active contesting at the rim, ranking 35th among those 67 players in contests per minute played. And that lines up with what you see on tape, as he does miss quite a few rotations as the back-line defender. He ends up defending nobody too often, and when he’s there, his lack of length and vertical pop means he’s not all that disruptive even when he’s in the right position. This is a difficult player type to make work on rosters that win at the highest levels. Let’s do a thing where we take a look in rosy terms and say he turns into something resembling Domantas Sabonis long term. The Kings are getting the most out of Sabonis this season, and he’s made multiple All-Star teams in his career. He should make another this year. But his teams have yet to win a playoff series. Nikola Vučević’s teams, when he was a starter, are 3-12 in the playoffs so far in his career. It’s a hard archetype to build around for playoff success if the defense is this bad, unless he turns into Nikola Jokić and is one of the 20 best players in basketball history. Much as I love Şengün’s skill set and think he’s terrific on offense, I’ll bet against “top-20 all-time” as an outcome. Should the Rockets care about that right now? Should they be trying to get to the 40-plus win level? Şengün can help them get there, for sure, if they use him properly. And right now, they need to let him rock. He’s the closest thing they have to an offensive focal point who fosters good offensive process. You can make a case he’s a genuine building block on the level of guys like Green and Smith. Or you can make a case they should try to spike his value over the rest of his rookie-scale deal and then move him before paying him. Where do you fall on this?
Iko: I’m all over the place when it comes to Şengün. There’s a part of me that believes Şengün can be a key piece alongside Green and Smith. But there’s another part that wonders what happens if the Rockets get a visit from Lady Luck this summer. If his progression continues, by the time Şengün’s rookie contract is up and he’s eligible for a lucrative extension, he’ll get one. It just might not be in Houston. Many Rockets fans will hear that and their stomachs will turn, but think about it for a second. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say after all their troubles, Houston winds up winning this year’s lottery. It’s clear Victor Wembanyama would be the Rockets’ new starting center, and he would play alongside Smith. Now say they end up picking second. I’d imagine Scoot Henderson would be the choice and the Rockets would be rife with cap space and in dire need of veteran frontcourt upgrades (maybe they pursue Myles Turner?). Would you be comfortable with Şengün as a sixth or seventh man? I don’t think a lot of fans would. The issue the Rockets will run into with Şengün, as talented of an offensive player as he is, is that it almost requires a re-wiring of thinking from top to bottom. Watching him have the game of his life against the Lakers and hearing himself and Stephen Silas speak to his talent, it’s evident there’s something real there. And for a 10-win team, there’s no harm in shifting strategies, if not to see what you have in a player acquired by trading two first-round picks for. Silas can be guilty at times of being too guard-oriented, which manifests on the floor. I look at a team like Sacramento and see comparable numbers in touches per game between Sabonis (81.8) and De’Aaron Fox (78.4). Şengün’s touches (50.4) are closer to Smith’s (44.9) than Porter’s (79.0). That gap needs to be closed. Look at the best playmaking big men in the league and how much they have the ball in the frontcourt — and Şengün isn’t that far off. Since the calendar flipped to 2023, Sabonis has a comfortable lead in frontcourt touches per game (57.1) but Şengün’s (42.8) is within Jokić (48.6), Vučević (49.4) and Draymond Green (45.0). The issue is how and where those touches happen. In addition, the bigs who have success have natural playmakers: Fox, Stephen Curry, and Jamal Murray. Defensively, Jokić and Sabonis also aren’t necessarily the weak links they’re often assumed to be. The Nuggets are nearly eight points stingier when Jokić is on the floor. The Kings are 3.2 points better defensively. You can confidently score two points without worrying about giving them back immediately. Moving to a more Şengün-centric system means the ball is in Porter’s hands less, and as someone who is learning that position and has recently been heavily financially invested in, I’m not sure the Rockets would be on board with that (going back to the whole guard-oriented thing) — but they should try it. This is tied to my “Porter is better off as a playmaking wing scorer” theory. Silas didn’t think the return of Porter from injury would diminish Şengün’s aggression and impact but, the best game of his young career came on a night when Porter wasn’t in the lineup. Silas has talked ad nauseam about his desire for a flow offense. It hasn’t worked out. Perhaps I’m the only one who thinks this, but not having Jae’Sean Tate for most of the year — who’s constantly on the move with the ball and hates standing still — is the biggest reason Houston’s half-court has looked as bad as it is.
Best player on current trash roster does not equate to franchise player. You guys are going to be embarrassed by this in a few years. I guess in a wasteland the heart has to grab on to something.
