Your definition of "promising" is kind of hilarious. By that definition, every young player on the Rockets is "promising"
You are quite the bball comedian, on one hand you are happy yet complain about them facing a G league team and talking about on paper when the results happen on the hardwood and translate to paper from what you produce via your floor game But wouldn't that make the Rockets a G league team since their head honcho was out and their other above replacement player (in your book) played a half vs. the other quality player until he got injured and left his G league squad? According to you it was Sengun and his scrubs vs. Lamelo and his scrubs Pretty sure some of those Rockets wins were against legit competition where JG4 avg like 27ppg or so in wins, how is that shutting him down? Even in losses he avg around 20ppg which isn't being shut down but strongly contained when comparing against the ppg in wins I think you have a JG4 poster on your wall and you use it for dart practice, and you brought a JG4 jersey and burned it just to uphold your crush for Mobley or whoever else you wanted Rockets to draft over JG4 You are long overdue for a good park ball run to sweat out your dislike for Stone's core selection to start the rebuild, it is what it be
Of course the Rockets are essentially a G league team....have you seen the roster? They have 2 starters that probably belong in the G league...or college. I'm happy any time a player plays well....but there is context to be considered, such as who it was against and if it made the team better or if their performance made no difference. I think Sengun and his scrubs vs LaMelo and his scrubs was a pretty good way of seeing it....only LaMelo wasn't healthy. Also, I've never said that there aren't games where Jalen Green gets hot and scores a lot of points....you know, just like Lou Williams or Gerald Green sometimes would. However, the rare hot night in the middle of a sea of awful performances is not exactly what you want from a top pick. If he continues having hot nights where he scores efficiently, I'll be thrilled, it'll mean he might make up for the abomination he is defensively.
Most of their starters should be in college (if they can stay from getting dismissed off the team) From what I see you post you pretty much always talk down on JG4, just as you did in this reply You wouldn't be thrilled at all, you would just throw more darts at his poster or be in your man cave punching the air And coming into the draft it was always about his scoring potential than his defense, so of course Rockets base and FO would hope his scoring makes up for his short comings on defense, no diff. than Raptors/Cavs hoping their young picks defense hits elite making up for their off. prowess(lack of)
I wouldn't say "most", just Jalen and Jabari are really struggling with the NBA level of competition. Jalen Green and Jabari Smith being absolutely terrible is kind of the biggest problem the Rockets have right now....why wouldn't people talk about that a lot? If one or both of them started playing well, it would completely change the trajectory of the team, EVERY Rockets fan would be thrilled by that. You bring up the Raptors and Cavs picks....one of those players is already a net positive for their team, the other is a net zero, neither Jalen or Jabari are anywhere close. Here, I'll show you. Rockets TPA to playing time....look at the bottom Now the Cavs Now for that Raptors A net zero player is absolutely amazing compared to the 3 scrubs we have down at the bottom of our chart.
I mean this happens all over the league too. ALSO, sometimes guys are good for like a year or two before the league either catches up with them or I don't know what happens. I think people vastly VASTLY underrestimate confidence and sometimes the system a team plays in. You have guys like Parsons and Lin who looked good until they didn't anymore and don't get me started on the number of people that made all rookie teams only to become role players at best. No one really knows. Some players get content with their skill, grow happy that they are an NBA player making NBA money and never grow, never show the drive to be great...while some players are the opposite. Always wanting more and pushing forward and pushing themselves to be the best player they can be. It really is impossible to know if Green, Sengun, Bari, or anyone from their draft class have that drive to be great. The only way we find out is over the years, after failures and victories, do we learn what these guys are actually about. So yeah, I wouldn't trade any of our recent draft picks unless it's for a sure thing and a star still with some prime left in them unless they demand a trade then its whatever at that point.
I was basing it off staying all 4 yrs on avg then everyone outside of Gordon are eligible to be in NCAA with Porter being a senior Reason I mentioned the Cavs/Raptors picks being they are based on they hope those players keep and become more elite in what they were drafted on being defense for most part, I didn't need you to post a chart because my eye test is well above replacement player tier, its between 1st thru 3rd all NBA caliber But I appreciate your sportsmanship And that is the reason I mentioned during this early rebuild you put a heavy load on all your first round picks from past two drafts, so you can see who is who and what is what, I don't put too much stock in team stats where we are talking about teams that are legit tanking and players are not being put in a position to develop within a legit structure What you posted showcases 20% of stock from my angle, the other 80% is in the favor of the trio core, including the other youngsters they drafted From observing and experience, you have to give raw/young players a 4 yr max period, some showcase it sooner from day one or some do it by year 3, but by year 4 will be basically what they are 80-90% and the remaining percent will be just becoming a wiser steady professional every yr after that to keep themselves a job
The reality is we will not get much value for Jalen or Jabari. People who are suggesting trades are likely just wishing we had other 20 year olds instead of these guys. It is too late to go back, but for example whatever the deal Orlando was proposing for #1 overall for #3 and additional asset, i'd like to go ahead and make that deal and get Paulo. We are instantly a better franchise. The prior year we also had an opportunity to trade #2 overall for SGA. So a team with SGA + Paulo already is starting to look better. The other option is to have drafted Giddey instead, so Paulo + Giddey is looking like a better foundation as well. I don't get the selection/comparison of random 20 year olds who became better, why not compare these guys to the other people in their draft class? Plenty of 20 year olds current and past who have shown they are better players than what we have. Sengun has shows signs of being a very good player, Jalen and Jabari we know have bust potential. i wonder if there are this many people making excuses for Jalen Suggs on the magic forums? Some of those guys you listed were mid first or second rounders, so they completely out performed, and were not given this much opportunity to begin with. Donovan, Jokic, and Embiid was injured a lot early as well. In our case, we are talking about guys who are given starting roles and tons of playing time and allowed to make as many mistakes as they want and throw fits with no repercussions. They were drafted super high, so far its looking likely they dont live up to their draft positions. Ask yourself this, would you trade Jalen for the #2 pick this year, and Jabari for a #3 the following year? Essentially a re-do, because I would do that.
The Rockets would be foolish to give up Green, Smith or Sengun or Eason. Christopher or the others could be moved for assets or roster space. I am not as concerned about the raw numbers 18-21 year olds put up as their improvement and their raw strengths translating to the NBA level. Smith has shot like ****, which I expected. He has a slow shot and his body hasn’t filled out. He also has a coach that doesn’t know how to utilize him or get him easy baskets and a point guard that is terrible at being a point guard. He has shown he can score inside (which was a huge question), he has shown he is quick enough to defend the perimeter and he has worked hard. I am the least concerned about him and believe right now he has the highest value on the Rockets. He may never be a superstar but he will be at least a better version of Harrison Barnes and that’s an all star. Jalen Green was terrible last year to start the season. I wasn’t shocked because I knew all the scouting reports about him having developed skills was a joke. Green had super elite straight line quickness, very nimble feet and hang time. He also had a natural aptitude to shoot but a broken shot. He didn’t improve for the first half of last year and I started to worry. He then went on a tear and started to put it together offensively. This year he started well but appears to have lost focus or interest and the effort has been mediocre. The only real positive I can say is he is stronger and going to the line. I expect next year he will play better if the Rockets get a real head coach and hopefully a GM. He looks like he will be a very good but flawed scorer that impacts the game less than a real star does. Sengun was someone I really wanted the Rockets to draft. I felt his foot speed was better than claimed and he was so gifted offensively. He has been as good as I hoped as a rebounder, shot blocker, passer and scorer inside. A lack of a three is what is keeping him from scoring 20-25 points a game. Defensively he has been bad. I think he can be passable with a really long and athletic big next to him. Overall a good draft pick.
That's really underselling Green. He actually doesn't have only straight line quickness. Lavine is more of a straight line athlete. Green definitely has more lateral seperation and shiftiness as in more "bend" or wiggle.
I was basing it on a combination of age and talent. Plenty are eligible to be in the NCAA, but Smith and Green's level of play suggest they should still be there. My point was that those players are both already WAY better than Green or Smith. The reason I try to stick to objective measures is to eliminate the bias that is unavoidable with "eye test" situations. I mean, we all make "eye test" judgements, but if my "eye test" is drastically different from what basically every metric says is really happening, I go with the metrics over what I think I am seeing. I think given just how poorly they have performed, and the fact that the Rockets are in prime position to have another top draft pick means that we need to make a judgement on those two sooner. IMO I'm willing to give Smith a bit more leeway because I don't think anyone believes he's a top tier player....kind of a taller Trevor Ariza. I think he can live up to that expectation. When it comes to Green, the talk is that he'll be an alpha dog superstar type....and I think there's very little chance that happens. If he learns how to shoot, I see him being a useful role player for a long time, I just don't see star potential. My hope is the Rockets land a top 2 pick and grab either Wemby or Henderson and they live up to the hype Smith and Green have failed to live up to.
But would you trade Nix? Cause he's exactly the same age as those guys. I can confidently say that he sucks and always will suck. In the same breath I'll say that I wouldn't trade Green，Sengun, and Smith. That's my point really. You can't just have a rule like "Don't trade 20 year olds" cause sometimes they really do just suck.
Nix doesn't have the pedigree like those other players so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt so yes you trade him. With that said, even he could become a useful NBA player in the future. He would not be the first player. I mean Beverly was a guy that wasn't an NBA player for a long time and worked himself into being one. There's a bunch of players like this in the NBA too, feels like every team has 2-4 of guys like that, guys who once upon a time had no business playing in the NBA. Nix's ceiling is just lower, that of a good back up guard is the best you can hope for him. He actually does do one thing well, that is knock down set threes. It's just too bad he's a horrible defender and TO machine...but if he can hold on to the ball, play with more focus, and just be a decent defender he could be a journeyman guard in the NBA someday. It's probably going to take him playing in the gleague or overseas for him to get it though. He plays so amazingly lazy for a guy that's a scrub.
100% agree. This team’s problems are not solvable by trades. We have talented players, and their value is undermined by the bad environment. Jalen Green in particular has tanked his trade value by his complete lack of effort and focus. He showed incredible stuff on a few occasions, like the Phoenix game for example, why trade him now when he looks like trash. What you want is to create an environment that maximizes your roster’s talent, to get it fully-valued, and only THEN you look for trades: either for better fit, or for a superstar, or for more lottery tickets, etc. In a proper environment, like the Spurs, someone like Jalen Green could definitely get to a D. Murray trade value (1x All-Star, 7WS), and at that point you can get an excellent haul, if you still think he’s not a horse to build around.
JG4/Smith are in the same mold of those who come straight out of HS as Green did who had 15 or so g league games due to Covid and Smith was one and done and both were drafted on potential which both has flashed and now the next step is consistency In past yrs players stayed 2 to even 4 yrs in college which prepped them better for next level but few have young players of their same path have came in year one and set the league on fire The eye test and playing experience is the large pct and the data helps as well, which all can be misleading depending on how its used based on the fanatical bias etc The Rockets were going to be in prime position regardless to get 3 consecutive lotto picks who would you have selected the past two drafts to think they wouldn't be in this position? You don't get labeled a 3 level scorer if you can't shoot, and both get leeway regardless of what people say now because its all based on potential, reaching it is a whole diff story TBD And getting Wemby or Henderson will still be a learning curve for them as well since Henderson is in the g league so another player would be joining what you call a g league Rockets squad and Wemby is basically playing in a souped up g league over there Its why Stone said revisit this in 10 yrs, not 3 Your hope is JG4 remains as is to feed your ego so you can keep repeating the same rinse and repeat diatribe that you showcase for most part, nothing more nor less
Once again the assertion is only offense driven. Defense or defensive capabilities matter. I'm of the belief that these big lugs will never be able to run and gun with today's playoff built teams that have a multitude of greyhounds that can shoot 3's that will take advantage of your one bulldog sluggo the likes of Jokic, Nurkic, Embiid, KAT, Gobert, etc. Either they are outrun in transition for the numbers advantage for a easy open 3 or easy rim run......or forced to pop out in the half court to contest a 3 point shooter. In the regular season it doesn't flare it's ugly head as much.....but in a 5 or 7 games series the good equipped teams find that advantage and exploit it. ----------------- I'm of the belief that there is a happy median where both the dueling banjo guard driven offense can coexist with the big lug during the season as long as you have your "Hampton-5" lineup ready to insert for the playoffs. Unfortunately I see the team forced into two factions: 1) guard driven vs 2) post up chug and lug Sengun. It appears to me Sengun is being forced to the head of the class by FO and fanbase alike, with a notion that all must go except Sengun. A form of rebuild the rebuild around Sengun and get rid of KPj first..... followed by Jalen Green (get rid of number one option) and then say bye-bye to Jabari Smith. Most would agree that rebuilding teams often trade away their accumulated talent like the 76ers did with Nerlens Noel, Okafor, Michael Carter-Williams, Fultz or lose them in free agency. I promote removing one vs the several. One Sengun vs KPj, Green, Jabari. Sometimes you have to brake a few eggs to make an omelette. The group of KPj, Green, Bari, Tari are closer than one Sengun. We traded DeAndre Melton early before others can see any flaws. If a lesser Jokic is all we got in Sengun.... I'm open to trading him before the entire league finds out those types don't win championships in today's NBA. In before the league adopts the 4-point play like in the Big Three league in an attempt to open things up even more. Stay ahead of the curve.
You been at practice a lot? How do you know what’s trained and what’s not. It’s like golf, if you go years without training you develop some bad muscle memory. It takes years and dedication to get rid of that muscle memory. Did you forget all the video of Lucus working with Jalen on his shooting last year? Jalen was asked to put on some muscle, done. Jalen was asked to go to the hoop more, done. You can’t build Rome in a day. Jabari shows glimpses of what he can be. Sengun has improved dramatically. They suck as a team because they have a coach that doesn’t know how to teach team ball. Individually they are working on their weaknesses and improving and by all counts that training is coming from assistants. Wanting to trade somebody with Green’s talents in his year 20 season is idiotic.
