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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I suppose there are difficulties pinning a consistent definition to fascism since it was roughly a century ago when it posed a credible threat among the American consciousness. The communist revolution in Russia was also a century ago, so definitions can be muddled.

    A simpler case to argue is that leadership from the left and right are both trending Authoritarian.

    The difference is that Dems have proven more willing to step back those powers if they know it's politically unpopular because they're more willing to accept their incompetence.

    Republicans assume they are the more competent of the two parties and firmly believe their answer of reversing anything Dems touch is a right step even if the means are illegal and highly destructive. And hey, if overturning or delaying election failures are possible then better do it first before the "fascist Dems" play for keeps...
     
  2. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  4. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-th...lection-excuses-11670592902?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

    Why the ‘Smart’ Party Never Learns
    If your views by definition are enlightened and progressive, why should you bother understanding those of the other side?
    By Barton Swaim
    Dec. 9, 2022 4:11 pm ET

    The most obvious change in American politics this century is the sorting of voters along educational lines. The Democrats are increasingly the party of educated urban elites; the GOP belongs to the white working class. The dispute is over suburban and minority voters. The latter still plump mostly for Democrats, although the party’s social radicalism is pushing them toward the GOP. Voters with impressive educational credentials tend to be Democrats, and those without them lean strongly Republican.

    That one party is the educated party—that its members see themselves, in some respects accurately, as more cultured and informed than their opponents—has generated an intellectual pathology that is obvious to everyone but themselves. Adherents of the smart-people party have lost the capacity for self-criticism. Which on its face makes sense. If your views are by definition intelligent, those of your critics must be dumb. Who needs self-reflection?

    We can start to understand the Democrats’ predicament by ridding ourselves of a set of metaphors. For a decade or more, we’ve been told that left and right live in “silos” or “bubbles” or “echo chambers” or “information cocoons.” The left watch MSNBC and read the New York Times, and the right watch Fox News and listen to talk radio.

    Exacerbating this state of affairs, we’re told, are social-media platforms whose algorithms give politically attuned users only content they’re likely to agree with. Facile claims to the contrary, Facebook, Twitter and similar platforms don’t have this effect. A 2019 study, “Are Filter Bubbles Real?” by Axel Bruns of Queensland University Technology in Australia surveys a wide array of evidence and finds that social-media users on all sides get plenty of exposure to content with which they disagree. “Ironically,” Mr. Bruns writes in an aside, “echo chamber and filter bubble concepts may have become so popular with some journalists, media critics, and politicians because members of these professional classes are genuinely more likely to inhabit an information cocoon of sorts.”

    In any case, the silo/bubble metaphor doesn’t describe American politics in the 2020s for the simple reason that there is no silo or bubble. Or if there is, it’s very large and almost exclusively populated by adherents of the smart-people party.

    If you’re on the right, you simply can’t isolate yourself from the habits and attitudes of left-liberal progressivism. They are everywhere. The most determined imbiber of right-wing opinion still watches television and movies and reads the mainstream press. The left-liberal outlook is expressed everywhere in these media, and generally it isn’t expressed as viewpoint but as established fact.

    The conservative voter who follows nothing but right-wing accounts on social media still sees CNN as a captive audience at airports. He advises his college-age children as they negotiate campus environments in which they’re expected to state their “pronouns” and declare themselves “allies” of the “LGBTQ2SIA+ community.” However scornful of left-wing opinion he may be, his employer still subjects him to diversity training. He attends a concert by the local symphony orchestra and has to listen to a four-minute lecture about systemic racism or climate change before the music starts. He can’t watch a pro football game without enduring little pronouncements of wokeness. The right-winger may get 100% of his news from Republican-leaning news sites but still has to be vigilant as his 5-year-old browses the children’s section of the local public library.

    There is no bubble, no silo, for such a person.

    The urban-dwelling knowledge-class progressive experiences few such dissonant moments. So pervasive are the opinions of left-liberal progressivism throughout American culture that the adherent of that worldview may roam freely in it with minimal disquiet. The TV ads that subtly legitimize the latest sexual identity; the lefty sermonettes intoned at public events; the movies and sitcoms that virtually all accept trendy orthodoxies; the race-fixated version of American history promoted in public schools—these the holder of conventional progressive opinions can absorb almost without noticing it.

    The left-liberal outlook has triumphed across American culture—in corporate boardrooms, in government agencies, in sports and entertainment institutions, in K-12 education bureaucracies, in universities and in media organizations. But that is precisely what has robbed progressives, especially those in the political class and in the media, of any ability to criticize themselves or doubt their own righteousness. They don’t engage with serious arguments advanced by the other side. They live in a world in which it is possible to pass through a month without encountering much in the way of serious conservative opinion. When they do encounter a conservative view, it is precategorized as “fringe” or “extreme” by the calm, omniscient NPR voice that relates its content.

    And so progressives have become, if I could put it bluntly, incurious and lazy. Every conservative journalist born in the last 70 or 80 years has, early in his career, come to the sad realization that liberal writers and intellectuals, the people conservatives are so careful to read and react to, don’t actually read conservatives or know much about the right. Their attitude recalls that wonderful line in “Casablanca” when Ugarte (Peter Lorre) asks Rick (Humphrey Bogart), “You despise me, don’t you?”

    Rick’s answer: “If I gave you any thought, I probably would.”
    more

     
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  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    conclusion:

    In the early 2000s, the Bush administration’s critics in Congress and the media showed no interest in understanding the neoconservative outlook that supposedly drove the Iraq War. Preposterous caricatures and badly informed theorizing were enough. Today, the left’s politicos and journalists, with a small number of exceptions, have still made no effort to understand the strangest and most surprising turn in politics in many decades: the election of Donald Trump. Russian meddling, “collusion” with Vladimir Putin, fear of nonwhite people, the ignorant reaction of poor white opium addicts, a resurgence of fascism—any explanation was OK as long as it didn’t involve self-reflection.

    Something about Mr. Trump gave Democrats and liberal journalists all the emotional license they needed to discount, once and for all, any possibility that a Republican might have a point. No party that could nominate Mr. Trump deserved further thought; the GOP had, in their eyes, defenestrated what was left of its legitimacy.

    Consider the past two years of Democratic governance. A slender majority in the U.S. House and a 50-50 tie in the Senate somehow led Democrats to believe they had no opposition to speak of. At times they seemed literally to believe this, as when Sen. Bernie Sanders and others fulminated against his Democratic colleagues Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema for resisting President Biden’s so-called Build Back Better bill—as if the bill had two opponents and not 52.

    Democrats and their backers in the news media, insisting on the infallibility of science, doubled down on onerous Covid restrictions long after it was clear that shutdowns, school closures and mask mandates were futile and destructive. In July of this year Anthony Faucisaid his only regret is that he didn’t recommend “much, much more stringent restrictions” in the spring of 2020. Even now, long after the views of antimasking and antishutdown protesters have been largely vindicated on the available evidence, long after fans of China’s draconian restrictionism have been disgraced by the reality of China’s failure, no one has offered an apology or an admission of error.

    The pullout from Afghanistan was a stupendous debacle, but virtually no Democrat in Congress or the administration could be found to hint that the thing had been less than ideal. Violent crime has returned to major cities, but the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN and elected Democrats have treated the matter as though it were an invention of conservative media. Massive levels of illegal immigration at the southern border, too, are treated by Democrats as though the whole business is made up.

    On economics, Republicans warned the administration in early 2021 about the danger that trillions in spending would inflate the currency. Their warnings were ignored. Inflation exploded, and the administration denied it. In August 2022 President Biden asserted that inflation was “zero percent.” He was, absurdly, comparing that month’s prices to the previous month’s, ignoring everything that happened before July.

    A global energy shortage has sent gas and electricity prices skyward. Congressional Democrats and the administration might easily have backed off their green commitments, promoted fracking and increased domestic oil production, at least on a temporary basis. That would have brought prices down, which was the only outcome Mr. Biden and other elected Democrats appeared to care about. I am not aware that such a policy change was ever considered.

    Rarely in politics does anyone admit fault. You don’t expect high-ranking members of either party to acknowledge straightforwardly that they were wrong about anything. But people sometimes adjust, even if they don’t admit they’re adjusting. After the 2022 midterm elections, in which Democrats outperformed expectations but still lost the U.S. House, the president was asked what, in light of the fact that three quarters of Americans say the country is headed in the wrong direction, he plans to do differently in the future. His reply: “Nothing.” You can discount Mr. Biden’s words for senescence, but that answer expressed perfectly the solipsistic self-confidence of his party.

    Even if the Democrats had been crushed in the 2022 midterm elections, they would have been unable to adjust. Their cultural dominance discourages them from changing course, which is why they can be counted on to invent exogenous reasons for electoral defeats: an allegedly racist TV ad in 1988, shenanigans in Florida in 2000, faulty voting machines in Ohio in 2004, collusion with Russia in 2016. Mr. Trump adopted this custom with abandon in 2020, but Republicans, who aren’t encouraged by elite culture to think themselves infallible, usually blame each other for electoral losses. Hence the 2013 autopsy, as wrongheaded as it was. There is no Democratic correlative to such a document.

    Democrats will hotly contest this analysis of their mindset and behavior. They will note that Republicans, too, think themselves infallible, and conservatives discount the views of their critics.

    And they do—sometimes. But Republicans and conservatives, when they are empowered and can make decisions, can’t depend on elite society backing them up. If a Republican official somewhere expresses a view falling outside the liberal conventional wisdom, that official can expect opposition from every segment of educated elite society—Hollywood actors, Fortune 500 boardrooms, university-based experts and so on. Blowback from so many sources isn’t easy to take, and in that case the Republican official will often, perhaps usually, back down.

    But this objection—the objection that Republicans often behave peremptorily—misses the point. The GOP is, increasingly, the party of the uneducated, of the uncredentialed worker who lacks proper data and nuance. Surely it is the educated voter, the respecter of scientific argumentation and informed debate, who bears a special responsibility to consider contrary views. It’s the smart person, not the stupid or ignorant one, who holds the gravest obligation to respect views other than his own. Yet owing to his status as a smart person, respecting other views is precisely what he can’t do.

    Mr. Swaim is an editorial page writer at the Journal.

    Appeared in the December 10, 2022, print edition as 'Why the ‘Smart’ Party Never Learns'.




     
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  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I'm curious. We see these articles describe entire cultures where they see patterns but where is the evidence?

    They claim that conserives try to sincerely understand their opposition while progressives have gotten lazy.

    But I ask this. Is there any form of right wing media that does things this podcast linked below or various other media that actually tries to examine people the ideology sees as "bad people" through an empathetic lense trying to examine how they reached the positions they did?

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...nce-thomas-story/id1373812661?i=1000571206147

    Like is their right wing media that goes into detail about how Che Guevara was raised and what he experienced that led him down the road the right sees as evil? Is there even that type of ideological discussion coming out of the right outside a few conservative academics?

    Is there that type of empathetic examination of people they disagree with that I actually do see from leftists?

    Do you actually see right wing ideologies and pundits actually examine urban crime through a empathetic lense rather than a talking point to own the libs?

    I often see leftists blame neo-liberal polices from democrats and republicans for the "hollowing" of middle America and rural America. It feels like there is a sincerity in their expressed empathy for these regions. I just don't see that type of empathetic lense from right wing/libertarian pundits.

    I see the left as far more obsessed with analysing systems with a sincerity I just don't see from the right. Mauve it's because one side wants to change the status quo and one side wants to maintain it which leads to a difference in how they analyze these things.
     
    #1546 fchowd0311, Dec 11, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I think a good example of how each side expressed empathy and tolerance for the opposing side is how mainstream right wing polticians feel comfortable making fun of leftist tropes like blue haired feminists and "woke" activists in general but mainstream liberal politicians wouldn't dare make fun of rural stereotypes.

    It seems like to me one side sincerely cares about issues and the other side sincerely cares about triggering the other side because they are offended the other side cares too much. Hence the right wing theme of making fun of activism constantly.
     
    #1547 fchowd0311, Dec 11, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
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  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Moderate Democrats Are the Future of the Party
    They have the energy and the momentum, they know how to cut deals, and their “boring” messaging works.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/moderate-democrats-are-killing-it/

    excerpt:

    As a strategic matter, it’s no secret why moderates are crucial. The Pew Research Center classifies only 6 percent of Americans and 12 percent of Democrats as “progressive left.” “Democratic mainstays,” the largest group in the party and the country, are older loyalists with “a moderate tilt on some issues,” in Pew’s phrase. The fact is that Democrats across the spectrum share many goals, among them equitable justice; police accountability; more immigration and a more humane, practical system; voting and abortion rights; and respect for people’s identities, whatever they may be.

    For the record, I’m on the “mainstay” wavelength—someone who frets about deficits, believes in compromise, and respects negotiators (yes, even Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema). It’s infuriating that Republicans routinely portray the Democratic party as one big socialist mob that coddles criminals, hates the police, loves open borders and lectures nonstop on pronouns, and millions of voters believe them. My top political wish for 2023 is that Democrats stop handing ammo to Republicans.
    more at the link
     
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  9. adoo

    adoo Member

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    the author of this article conveniently pretends that Biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill never happened.


    Amid House GOP chaos, Biden/ Shumer/McConnell/Dem Gov from Ky and Rep Gov from Ohio,
    make bipartisan trip to the Brent Spence Bridge

    Thanks to the bipartisan Infrastructure bill signed by POTUS Biden, the dilapidated bridge connecting Ohio and Kentucky will be getting a federal facelift to the tune of $1.63 Billions.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-...funding-in-show-of-bipartisanship-11672848222
     
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  10. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    Yeah, but what about all the evil horrible wokesters running the Democratic Party
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Imagine a post apocalyptic society where everyone has to be called "they". That's where we are heading if we keep voting Democrat. Scary times.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    And we see how successful the Non Smart party is doing now. What have pushing these culture war issues gotten but a party just driven by grienvances that is turning on itself.
     
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  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Maybe the GOP can learn their lesson and care more about rent prices than pronouns.

    Who am I kidding? As long as there are millions of suckers like ATW, GOP politicians will continue the easy pander.

    Real issues are hard to solve. Why not just pander and give the appearance you care about something? If you didn't join politics to serve the community than obviously the easy pander is the path of least resistance to stay in power.
     
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I can see some parallels with how we expected religious folk to be more upright and moral than your average bear. If libs want to look smarter, they should definitely perform more due diligence with the policies they're enacting.

    I don't see much follow through or trial data analysis anymore. How does defunding the police solve the problems inside our cities... Are larger cities handling of the homeless/addicts humane, affordable, sustainable or effective? How do we drive and gather data from proposals that sounds great on paper? Seems the margin of error is greater now that belts are tightening and with more cynical and nihilistic scrutiny on the internet.

    Anyhow, there's definitely a strong double standard when taking on that premise. The Reagan/Bush years had the popularthought that Conservatives had the intellectual advantage over economic policies. This mystique was thoroughly shattered during the dub**** years where even folks in his own base "turned independent" at the end of his term.

    Yet they still promote and celebrate tax cuts as Free stimulus (Liz Truss lol) or the good ol Laffer Curve as real solutions. It's a big reason why Cons are courting idiots, mouth breathers and dep...raved. They largely gave up trying to reinvent and add upon the bedrock economic policies from their Golden eras. All they can rely on is claiming all humans are selfish, self serving actors who pursue the highest rational benefits. Oh hai, incels!

    It's definitely a higher standard but libs reflexively and knowingly take it on without doing the heavy lifting required. It's almost foreshadowing for another Bushlike strings of economic trillions dollar gaffes for the libs.
     
    #1554 Invisible Fan, Jan 6, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
  15. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    I had to use a unisex bathroom the other day. Where has my country gone?
     
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  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    ‘Boy Meets World’ star Ben Savage planning run for Congress

    https://www.nydailynews.com/snyde/n...0230119-x6axpen6prgcdbq7huzc25dn24-story.html

    excerpt:

    Actor Ben Savage, best known for portraying the lovable Cory Matthews in the ‘90s sitcom “Boy Meets World,” wants to be a congressman. According to a campaign filing with the Federal Election Commission Wednesday, Savage, a Democrat, is planning to run for the 30th District seat currently held by Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Burbank.

    Schiff is rumored to have his eye on Dianne Feinstein’s Senate seat in the upcoming 2024 election, though neither has made any formal announcements regarding the future. He has served California in the U.S. House of Representatives since 2001.
    more at the link
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I've had several small commercial projects (restaurants, bars, coffee shops) where the owner has wanted to have a single unisex bathroom instead of two gendered ones, under the argument that a unisex bathroom should count as two bathrooms.

    Unfortunately the code doesn't allow that. You can have a unisex bathroom but it only counts for one bathroom and for a plumbing fixture calculation we have to still calculate for two genders. The unisex bathroom can take the place of one of the gendered bathrooms.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    For small businesses and restaurants I don't even understand why you need two gendered bathrooms if there is only one pair of urinal and toilet. It's a single person use bathroom in most cases in these small places like chain restaurants like Chipotle.
     
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  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    You actually don't need two gendered bathrooms and you can have two unisex bathrooms. The plumbing calculation is still using gender so the calculation goes you divide the number of occupants by two to determine how many of each gender there is. There are other calculations for the number of toilets for women and men. There has been discussion of changing this to a gender neutral calculation but it hasn't happened yet. At the moment the reason for keeping the calculation is to make sure there are sufficient numbers of plumbing fixtures for the max occupancy of a space.

    Just to note most of the clients I deal with aren't saying they should only need one bathroom for woke reasons but because putting in bathrooms isn't cheap. If you can argue you only need half the number of bathrooms that is a substantial savings in construction.

    FYI even under current codes you can have a single bathroom if the occupancy is sufficiently small.
     
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  20. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Al gore has lost his mind
     

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