1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DasouthDakota, Oct 25, 2022.

  1. theDude

    theDude Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    4,681
    I either voted for or commented in support of that.
     
  2. kubli9

    kubli9 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,113
    Likes Received:
    4,594
    Wow. There is seriously a debate happening whether good passes affect shots.
     
  3. kubli9

    kubli9 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,113
    Likes Received:
    4,594
    Hopefully nothing career ending, but I wouldn't mind if this injury were to shut KPJ down for the rest of the year.
     
  4. Crashlanded19

    Crashlanded19 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,181
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    I don’t want to see him in a rockets uniform ever again.
     
  5. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    4,588
    That's a valid question. I'm not making excuses for this horrid shooting. I think that historically, precision passes lead to better shots. But I cant say that I know that this would help our current shooting situation. I was just wondering if there is any data supporting that where a shooter catches his pass prior to his shot no longer has any effect.
     
    harold bingo likes this.
  6. kubli9

    kubli9 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,113
    Likes Received:
    4,594
    This is basketball 101. You get a pass at your feet or over your head, it messes with your shooting motion. You always want to hit a guy "on the money" with a pass at chest level.
     
  7. harold bingo

    harold bingo Efficiency Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    11,240
    Using data to support this is really hard, the more I think about it. Because a lot of the time the result of a bad pass is no shot at all. Like, if I'm wide open in the corner for a 3, because someone drove to the hoop and drew my defender, but then his pass to me is 4 feet to my left, then I have to move to catch the ball so it doesn't go out of bounds. And after I move, and catch it, and set my feet, and get ready to shoot, now my defender has fully recovered and is in my face, and there isn't even a shot anymore. So now I have to kick it back out to the guard at the top for a full reset on the possession, we lost our advantage. But in this example there was no shooting attempt at all, so there's no "effect" to even examine.

    Similarly, you can't look at "good passes for wide open shots" vs "bad passes for wide open shots" because the quality of the pass impacts the openness of the shot. A really good pass means you get to shoot it immediately, so that shot is wide open. But in the exact same scenario, a bad pass means you take longer to recover from the catch, longer to get into your motion and get the shot up. So in that extra time the defender maybe closed from 7 feet to 4 feet, so that's not even qualified as a wide open shot anymore.

    The concept itself is really simple and self evident. It's really just a tough nut to crack through the lens of data. I don't know if there is a good way to do it, or any way at all.
     
    Easy, jiggyfly, Dobbizzle and 3 others like this.
  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    66,217
    Likes Received:
    29,077
    It would certainly guarantee the Rockets have the worst record in the league if they lost their most talented guard for the rest of the season.
     
  9. kubli9

    kubli9 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,113
    Likes Received:
    4,594
    The season is already lost, and last night made me realize I don't mind the losing as much as I can't stand watching KPJ play basketball.
     
  10. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,888
    whats the rockets record with him playing? and are they last yet again?

    asking for a friend
     
  11. King1

    King1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,719
    You can't possibly be this stupid.
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    66,217
    Likes Received:
    29,077
    Sounds like a personal problem. Jalen Green last night was worse than KPJ has been at any point this season.

    I'm not sure how watching that absolute scrub mindlessly chuck, turn the ball over, and not even pretend to play any defense didn't bother you.

    I guess you just like really terrible basketball.
     
  13. maypk

    maypk Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2022
    Messages:
    1,697
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Well the Rockets have the worst record in the league without losing their "most talented guard" halfway through the season already. So i don't see how is it going to get any worse without him.
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    66,217
    Likes Received:
    29,077
    That's true, but that's primarily due to having 3 of the worst performing players on the roster in the starting lineup.

    Jalen, Jabari, and EG have been an anchor around the team's neck all season long.

    Swap out Jalen for KJ and Jabari for Garuba and EG for Tari and the Rockets would win a lot more games.
     
  15. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,888
    LOL no they definitely wouldn't. the delusional things people tell themselves is hilarious around here
     
    clutchdabear and King1 like this.
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    66,217
    Likes Received:
    29,077
    Sorry kiddo, it's simply the truth. It's REALLY easy to see who the worst performing players on the team are....they are pretty much all by themselves when it comes to level of suck.

    Rockets current TPA 1.png

    To make matters worse, the absolute worst performing players have some of the most minutes played on the entire team.

    There's just no way you can win with scrubs like Green, Smith, and EG logging that many minutes while playing that poorly.

    Rockets current tpa 2.png
     
  17. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,888
  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    So the other guys can't be questioned but KPJ can?

    That's the issue KPJ is the only guy that gets questioned while nobody else comes under the scrutiny.

    Yeah, the list does go on and on.
     
    DaDakota likes this.
  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    So you can have reasonable takes and do not just troll people?

    [​IMG]
     
    Salvy likes this.
  20. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    You realluy are delusional or just have less of a grasp of basketball than I thought.

    Did you really just say because Sengun has more hops he can match Jokic?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now