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University Instructor Fired for Showing Islamic Art

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by durvasa, Jan 8, 2023.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I'm not going to go so far as to call her "irrational" I'm also not going to mock her or call her a "snowflake". I can understand how seeing something that you've been taught all your life is wrong or evil can be very disturbing. I remember the first time I saw some of the images from "The Rape of Nanking" and that was pretty disturbing for me personally.

    As we all agree history and life isn't going to be free of offense. If she looks up to her teacher as someone who is supposed to guide her that means also confronting things that will make her very uncomfortable. For that matter the teacher warned her and other students ahead of time. She could've dropped the class or asked to be excused that day if the offense was going to be so great.

    I get it that many want to criticize Islam in this case though it sounds like not all Muslims agree with the student and CAIR. Muslims though have a right to practice their religion as much as Christians or others. They have a right to be offended. Where I think it get's to be a problem is expectation that others will cater to their right. In this regard it sounds like the teacher did everything right but they are still offending and demanding consequences. It would be like an orthodox Jew going to dinner to a place that serves pork and seeing other diners eating pork demands that the cook be fired.
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    News article with a statement from the University President. Overall poor response.

    WTH is wrong with ppl - you can disagree all you want but "daily threats of violence"...


    This is the full statement from President Miller :

    My institution, Hamline University, a small liberal arts college located in St Paul, Minnesota, has been in the news lately. The New York Times ran an article leading with the headline, “Prophet Image Shown in Class, Fraying the Campus.”

    The article reports on an incident that occurred on our campus in October, where an adjunct instructor, teaching a class in art history, showed an image of the prophet Muhammad to a class attended by a number of Muslim students. And when a Muslim student objected to its showing, to quote the Times, the adjunct “lost her job.”

    Various so-called stakeholders interpreted the incident, as reported in various media, as one of “academic freedom.” The Times went so far as to cite PEN America’s claim that what was happening on our campus was one of the “most egregious violations of academic freedom” it had ever encountered.

    It begs the question, “How?” Because Hamline University is now under attack from forces outside our campus, I am taking this opportunity to comment upon, and in several important instances, correct the record regarding critical aspects of this incident -- both as reported in the press, and as shared by those who have been enjoined in the conversation about academic freedom.

    First, I must state that the adjunct instructor hired to teach the course in art history did not “lose her job,” as has been reported by some outlets. Neither was she “let go” nor “dismissed,” as has also been reported. And most emphatically, she has not been “fired,” as has also been claimed.

    The adjunct taught the class to the end of the term, when she, like all other faculty, completed the term requirements, and posted her grades. The decision not to offer her another class was made at the unit level and in no way reflects on her ability to adequately teach the class.

    However, media coverage of the characterized the aftermath differently: reports were that the adjunct instructor was “dismissed” or “fired.” Fueled by commentary not well-informed on the particulars of this situation, we now find ourselves at the heart of a purported stand-off between academic freedom and equity. It has escalated to the point where I, members of my executive staff, other campus staff and, most sadly, one of our students now receive daily threats of violence.


    To suggest that the university does not respect academic freedom is absurd on its face. Hamline is a liberal arts institution, the oldest in Minnesota, the first to admit women, and now led by a woman of color. To deny the precepts upon which academic freedom is based would be to undermine our foundational principles.

    Prioritizing the well-being of our students does not in any way negate or minimize the rights and privileges assured by academic freedom. But the concepts do intersect. Faculty have the right to teach and research subjects of importance to them, and to publish their work under the purview of their peers.

    At the same time, academic freedom does not operate in a vacuum. It is subject to the dictates of society and the laws governing certain types of behavior. Imara Scott, in an April 2022 article published in Inside Higher Ed, noted that “academic freedom, like so many ideological principles, can be manipulated, misunderstood, and misrepresented…academic freedom can become a weapon to be used against vulnerable populations. Why? Because on the other end of a professor claiming academic freedom may be a student — a student who lacks tenure, who must rely on that professor for a grade and who may be emotionally, intellectually, or professionally harmed by the professor’s exercise of the power they hold.”

    Also, the American Federation of Teachers correctly notes that “academic freedom and its attendant rights do not mean that ‘anything goes’”. It notes that “faculty must act professionally in their scholarly research, their teaching, and their interactions with students and…ensure this through policies and procedures that safeguard both students and the academic integrity of the institutions and disciplines”.

    I ask those who presume to judge us the following questions: First, does your defense of academic freedom infringe upon the rights of students in violation of the very principles you defend? Second, does the claim that academic freedom is sacrosanct, and owes no debt to the traditions, beliefs, and views of students, comprise a privileged reaction? That is why Hamline’s Civility Statement, which guards our campus interactions, notes that any student, regardless of race, ethnic background, religion or belief, deserves equal protection from the institution.

    It is far easier to criticize, from the security of our computer screens, than it is to have to make the hard decisions that serve the interests of the entire campus community. What disappoints me the most is that little has been said regarding the needs and concerns of our students that all members of our community hold in trust. I hope this changes.

    I also note that Hamline is an independent university still closely affiliated with the United Methodist Church, and its foundational principles inscribed in the oft-repeated words on our campus of John Wesley: “To do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can.” We at Hamline live by these words.

    To do all the good you can means, in part, minimizing harm. That is what has informed our decisions thus far and will continue to inform them in the future. We hope you understand and respect the values guiding our efforts. Sincerely, Fayneese Miller, PhD President.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I feel like with any publicized event where a public entity does something wrong they can always fall back to "we are receiving threats" due to the ubiquitous and anonymous nature of social media. There always is a threat somewhere. Just understand that right wing organizations that do bad stuff often use the "we are receiving threats" sympathy card all the time and I'm sure they are mostly honest about the claims just due to how common threats online are now. I'm sure an opinion on using ranch for French fries has resulted in threats of violence on the internet.

    No sympathies for that student. My mom his a hijabi practicing Muslim and she thinks the student is stupid and just what's to be center of attention.
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Yea, but while I said WTH, it sadly doesn't really surprise me. Violence threat is just not acceptable.

    I'm taking her statement at face value. Right-wing characters that threaten others ... nay, not taking their statement at face value.

    If you are threatening someone with violence and you get the same in response, while still not acceptable, I don't have sympathy for that. The student here did not issue a violent threat AFAIK.
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I said nothing about the student making threats.

    I'm saying any incident for the rest of modern society that is public regardless of ideology or even context will have someone on the internet making a violent threat about the matter. That is the nature of modern society and Internet culture.
     
  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Not implying you did. Just saying I do have sympathy for the students and all faculty members that are receiving violent threats.
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I have no sympathy for the individual student in this case. She ****ed over the career of another person due to irrational belief that her views must be practiced by anyone around her to satisfy her sensibilities. This is like a Jewish or Muslim person walking into a McDonald's and trying to fire the manager for selling the Mcrib.

    I have sympathy for the Muslim community who are now going to be targets from right wing communities using this incident to further decimate hatred of them but that student also is to blame also.

    I empathize with the student in the sense I can understand how she has been brainwashed since childhood to become who she is today as someone so easily offended about something so trivial.
     
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Yes, a very disappointing response. None of this is a justification for demanding that teachers censor their course content because of the religious feelings of a few students in the class. How is this not also harming students, who are paying for a high-quality liberal arts education?

    The University continues to treat the teacher like she was "harming" students in the class, despite giving students the opportunity to object or leave the classroom if they found the content uncomfortable.
     
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  9. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    IMB, that doesn't justify violent threats toward her. My sympathy is toward anyone that is receiving unjustified (or even in some cases justified) violence threats.

    Yes, ppl tend to be a product of their environment and thus I try (often failing at it) not to judge so much.
     
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  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Agree. And tbh, it was a hard read. The logic doesn't make sense... and it's just not well written and thought out. I expected better from a university president.
     
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  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I don't think that's what it seems like to the believer. Maybe it's more like watching a cult sacrifice babies and then being told if they don't like it, they shouldn't have come to the ritual sacrifice. I can imagine being so wound up on this blasphemy idea that it isn't enough for the believer to just not look when other people are doing it. They want to actually stop all people from doing it because it is actually hurting others (Allah, I guess, in this case). A Jew doesn't care if other people eat pork because the point of the Law is to keep himself clean. But the prohibition on images of the Prophet is meant to glorify Allah, so you can follow the argument to its logical conclusion that the prohibition applies to everyone. Not that I want to accommodate this pov, and I definitely don't want universities accommodating it, but I can imagine how simply averting your gaze isn't enough for the believer -- it's like watching babies being stabbed and just looking away.

    I see this with the political correctness kids today too. They have many prohibited words and it no longer matters what the context is, nobody can say them. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a Hamline prof fired for discussing the etymological history of the word ******. The rationale the school uses is the same.
     
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  12. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    But how can Allah, an omnipotent and omniscient God, be "harmed" by this? The only "argument" against such artwork is that it is sinful to deify Muhammed, but clearly that is not what the class was doing. These people are unreasonable, and the University is validating their unreasonableness. It's a huge disservice to their student body.

    The harm that may come out of this, if any, would be crazed Islamicists endangering the safety of the teacher or others at the University over the "insult" (France teacher attack: Four pupils held over beheading - BBC News).
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I didn't say it was reasonable. I've already agreed the university royally screwed this up. It's really more of an aside to the conversation. I'm saying I know what it feels like to get wrapped up in the internal logic of an ideology and lose all perspective on what you can reasonably ask of others. I suppose I'm reacting to the perfectly reasonable accommodation that people have pointed out, that the prof provided a trigger warning and gave students a chance to leave. It's perfectly reasonable, and in fact might be more accommodation than should actually be necessary (but accommodation is cheap). But I can see how a Muslim student might say it's not good enough. They still know you'll be blaspheming in the class they skipped. And yeah, it isn't much different from the logic that drives a Muslim to behead a teacher, or the logic that leads one to smashing his way into Congress to try to stop an election certification, or the logic of telling people it's a sin to masturbate because of an Old Testament story about a man exploiting his dead brother's wife for sex, or the logic that an orthodox Jew can have an electric light on during the Sabbath but can't turn it on during the Sabbath, or the logic for passing laws to make abortion illegal because life begins at conception. Or in this case, it seems, the logic that anything that makes a student feel unsafe should be avoided by the university. People need to step back sometimes and get out of their own heads.
     
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  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Says the Islamophobe.
     
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    What religion is not?
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Ok, she is laying it on thick and screams just looking for attention.

    I think she has been waiting to get this kind of attention.

    I know this is not going to sound right but it always seems to be the black Muslims who have issues with everything.
     
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  17. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    From what I read, the student didn't say anything about harm to others but just to her.

    From Wikipedia: "the key concern is that the use of images can encourage idolatry".

    So, I guess it's harmful to the religion and those who *may* follow it. (when in all likelihood, this behavior is harming the religion so ...). In modern day, extreme religious intolerance is harmful to itself and others.
     
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  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I bet she has been waiting to raise her profile and jumped on this.
     
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  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    This makes no sense, if she felt that strongly about it she should not take the class because it was clearly written in the syllabus.

    How can you equate sacrificing a baby with being shown a depiction of Allah I understand what your premise is but you are equating apples to bowling balls.

    The prohibition on images of the prophet is to not promote idolatry and showing a pic in the class briefly is in now way idolatry nothing about having a teacher fired because you don't like having the pic shown is logical, especially when you have been warned several times that the pic would be shown.

    Since when does the believer get to set the rules for everyone else, this was a secular class, she did not have to avert her gaze she could have taken another class or missed that class. I am sure the teacher would have let her do it without any penalty.
     
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  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    The Council of American Islamic Relations in Minnesota (CAIR-MN) says the trigger warnings weren't enough.

    "This idea of academic freedom being absolute is absolutely wrong," said CAIR-MN Executive Director Jaylani Hussein.
    Jaylani is absolutely wrong. :rolleyes:

    People mostly like history the way it suits them, but we maintain the principle of academic freedom in order to hold the tyrants of our past and present accountable.

    The pen is mightier...
     
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