I'm wondering if Green & KPJ keep doing what they're doing, playing street ball like Rudy T allowed Cat & Francis to do, if it ends up another situation where we need a JVG to try and undo what Silas has allowed to go unchecked, is it the end of either or both here? Remember when JVG came in, he tried to make Yao the focal point of the offense and iso ball needed to be down to a minimum. Francis hard a time to adjust and the relationship with JVG was not good. Granted, Rudy T would've likely gone there as well and maybe it was JVG's personality and the way he went about it that rubbed Francis the wrong way, but it was the end of Francis here. Even if we hadn't traded him for Tracy, Francis was just used to being the man and it couldn't be unlearned. He went to the Magic with a young Dwight, couldn't get it done there either. It might be a nightmare scenario and given Green & KPJ's talent you would think there's no way they will stay iso ball players, with little discipline, refusal to play differently etc. BUT what if after years of playing that way, there's something to unable or too late to unlearn all those bad habits, tendencies and their mentality to get theirs at all cost? And what if we keep Silas or regardless of who's coming in next and they refuse to play differently, they simply want to play as they have been, of course start and for both their career's and next contracts feel they need to be the man? Can you see them budding heads with the next coach and the relationship unmanageable to the point of their careers as Rockets ending like Francis' did? What you think of the bad habits, the mentality that both have, the lack of accountability, the ability to change after 3-4 years in the league, their willingness to play team ball and could you see a scenario playing out with a next coach or under Silas or even Lucas when they need to change their game and they refuse or cannot? Can you see a Francis-JVG like relationship happening where either KPJ or Green will be traded? I fear there's something to do this and maybe you all can provide some insight from former players, examples of other players who did manage to turn it around on top of what you think. Please try not to focus on the final question of Francis-JVG too much, it's more about the lack of accountability, playing a certain way, bad habits developing and how hard that is to undo.
It's a concern, but an easily fixable one. You just don't pick up KPJ's next team option, and Green has to prove himself on a serious team with a more talented PG after that. We only paid a second rounder for KPJ, it's totally ok to let him walk. I feel like people think Silas and Stone actually love KPJ's game, and those people will be shocked at how his long leash will become extremely short after game 82 of this season. Cuttino Mobley was an excellent player who was doing nothing wrong btw. He was playing defense and finishing plays at an above average level for a role playing SG. He was an excellent addition later to the Clippers and he paired well with big men his whole career creating space for them and nailing kick-out 3's. Yes when we had no hope of winning, he took some shots he wouldn't normally take. Mobley did not have Green's star quality of course. I don't like how Mobley is lumped into this "chucker" category when he's a classic role playing SG like Eric Gordon or Klay Thompson. These guys always have fewest assists on the team, their role is to finish the play, run the break and play great defense. They don't get many rebounds and assists. KPJ's story is getting sadder by the day. I had hoped an improvement in his scoring efficiency would matter, but it hasn't mattered at all. The number one problem on this team is that the other 4 players are starving for good execution and delivery in the offense and he has not made an iota of progress in delivering it. The second biggest problem is defense, where KPJ is 1/5th of the problem at the very least. The ENTIRE TEAM is shooting poorly. Is it EVERYONE else's fault? lol Eric Gordon, Jalen Green, Alperen Sengun and Jabari Smith are ALL below expectations at the 3pt line. Can it be that all of them are doing something wrong simultaneously? Come on now. What about defense, what's the excuse there? That his teammates suck? Well they sucked last season too and KPJ played better defense. In this area he just has not cared, and he acts like a leader to these young guys, and guess what? The young guys feel like defense must not be that important if the guy who gets the new contract and the keys to the team doesn't get any pushback for bad defense. That's an organizational culture issue Mr Head Honcho. You guys know I'm CONSTANTLY promoting patience with this young roster and I've pushed back on people who have gone in on KPJ, blaming him for every single thing. It's getting so hard to keep doing that. He has to improve his passing and defense, we're approaching halfway point of the season and he's a year or two older than all these guys. Slightly better shooting for a couple of weeks is totally irrelevant, we knew he could do that 2 years ago. For the first time since we acquired him, I'm approaching the point of sheer disappointment in the future he's carving out for himself. He has to wake up to save his Rockets future otherwise he's going to hear that age-old NBA saying from Stone: "Sorry Kevin. Your contract was the only one that could make the trade work. It's a business after all." >>> That btw is going to trigger his trust-related mental issues again.
I’d like to see them reach Stevie’s level first. These guys make Steve look like the Albert Einstein of hoops.
It’s a legit concern and why I’m very disappointed in the growth they’ve shown so far. Tanking or not, you can’t continue the bad habits so much that they become routine, and it feels like that is happening. This feels so much like Francis Mobley all over again.
Steve Francis was at Community College- San Jacinto Texas at age 20 He transferred to Maryland at Junior Year - Age 21 Jalen Green has already surpassed Steve Francis at age 20 Jalen Green age 19 NBA - Steve Francis 6 High Schools, Dropout at age 18 - San Jacinto Junior College age 19
I said it the DAY we took Green over Mobley - that KPJ and Green are redundant, they are the same type of player one will need to go. Choose the one you like and trade the other. As I believe that KPJ is currently the better player and has way more skills, and Jalen is still a guy that generates the most in a trade package, I would trade Green. DD
Once. And that honestly would probably be all the appearances he would have had in his career also of Yao didn't join.
Steve Francis frustrated the crap out of me. The inability to run a fast break took at least 3 years off my life. The comments after games that he knew what he had to do to fix the mistakes...then coming out and making the same mistakes all over again...that absolutely killed me....I literally (no, not metaphorically) died when he dribbled past his guy, just to dribble back to show you he could beat him again. I'm writing this message to you all from Eternity. I sure hope that's not where this is headed, but I do see parallels. Coaching is a big part of it in this instance, in particular, I believe. I love Silas as a human being...but we need to move on. I told my son this weekend that I don't see Green as a killer. I think guys are just wired that way or not...I don't see it in him. I so hope he proves me wrong. He seems like a good kid, and he's insanely talented.
I agree with 95% of this, well stated. My only question is why is the staff so insistent on keeping KPJ at starting PG? We don't have another scenario to test against to show whether a more cerebral PG could unlock the team. Experimentation leads to growth. It seems reasonable to acquire and try another PG alongside KPJ before just not picking up his team option.
I think that's pretty easy to answer too: the organization is not looking for team growth, it's looking for individual growth in skills. Team growth could mean 1 more win, and they just don't want that. Stone doesn't want it, and if Silas wants a shot at trying to make the playoffs next season then he won't want it either. Forcing KPJ's development is the bet they're taking that could achieve both a high lottery pick and in their mind KPJ could be an asset developed out of thin air. They don't act like they agree that it will significantly impact the team's overall future growth.
Say what you want about Francis but he was putting up good numbers on a winning team in 03-04, prior to the TMac trade. 26, 3x All Star, and he was easily our best player in that 04 playoffs against the LAL. Not sure what he would have done if he stayed in Houston with Yao, but he went downhill in Orlando and NY and never made the playoffs again. We absolutely won that trade. He definitely plays a similar style to KPJ, but dude had amazing talent coming in the league. His hops were legendary, he was quick, and had a good handle. Skillset could have made him a superstar if he maximized those talents.
Yeah, I think it is a very parallel situation. In my opinion, we should start looking for the TMac to their Francis and Mobley -- that is to say, start looking for a better player to package up to. I think one option is Trae Young. Lot of smoke the Hawks are thinking of moving on from him. If we trade KPJ and Green for him, I think that's a good start of an offer for Trae. Trae is already better than I think either of those guys will ever be, and is young enough to have room to grow (especially if a good coach gets him to play smarter ball).
