When are we going to start criticizing Rafael Stone?

This is such bullsh*t. Stone clearly laid out the plan. Suck until after the 23 draft, don’t take on salary, and start to put the right vets in place to start competing in another year or two. He has had excellent drafts and will find his coach next year. It is a re-build from scratch and is going exactly according to plan. The only thing I can fault him on is the Silas hire and I’m sure they will rectify that in the off-season. No real reason to bring in your permanent coach until next year. I’d still be ok with him firing Silas and give the dude from RGV chance as interim to at least semi fix the offense.

 

Did you actually read the post or did you just want to type the word bullshit?

While you are more effusive in your praise - your post said 80% of what mine said.

 

That is disregarding the human element......that you can flip a switch and losers magically become winners by putting 'the right vets'.

Every plan sounds good inside the head but once executed, you see how tough it is and how far from reality the plan still is.

Players don't just shake off 'bad, old habits' because the GM told them to.

I see the team struggling below or around the 'Play In zone' for years.

I would love to believe that propaganda machinery if they paid me kool aids every day.

 

What happens when you turn the steering wheel on a ship that is not in motion?
Motion in this context is momentum towards a clear goal.
We don't have any momentum and our set goals are lacking specifics.

I am beginning to warm to the idea of keeping both (coach & G.M.) till the end of the season and if the lack of progress merits it, cutting both.
Bring in a new coach and gm together. Two guys that maybe have worked together before? Like each other? See things similarly?

 

The main point of your post was that Stone was not qualified to be GM. Replacing him is knee-jerk, especially since he laid out his plan and is successfully executing it. Your entitled to your opinion about why Stone was hired and whether he is doing a good job, but I am entitled to my opinion that those calling for Stone’s head are speaking immaturely and are just part of the immediate satisfaction culture we are living in now. Giving stone until the deadline to prove himself in a tanking year is ridiculous.

 

Because the deal wasn't "Gordon for a first round pick"

The deal was "Gordon for bad salary and a first round pick"

If that bad salary persisted beyond the end of this season where you have nearly $60m to spend on FA / Trade, the first round pick is garbage.

Because they didn't want to pay him $100m .... they wanted the flexibility of a young team with enough cap space to add two max FA's.

Tanking for lottery talent was always plan A.

 

Laying out a plan to tank is not hard. It also jeopardizes a generation of fandom and has a high probability of failure. Ask Hinkie how the continued tank worked for him and he was generally more respected coming into the GM role. Rafael Stone would have been up for zero other positions than the one he received. Despite that - I still didn't call for his head as you imply. I said I believe it is time for an experienced GM but also laid out a path for him to keep his roll based on the merit of his work this years trade deadline to make some modest moves and beginning the arduous task of identification of a new coach to come in next season. Considering his hands on approach to players - I also noted that the best coaching candidates may not want to work with him. It is what it is.

I don't think his drafts have been as successful as others. You are correct. I have always questioned the amount of 1st round picks he has taken each year. There is no need to ever bring on four first round picks in one year and then to follow it up with three more. Usman Garuba didn't succumb to draft and stash - poor due diligence. What was the point of taking Josh Christopher if you were madly in love with KPJ and selected Green with the second pick?

I feel he's been trying to catch lightning in a bottle and doesn't have enough vet presence on the roster to help develop talent. I've felt this way for quite some time as my posting history will support. I'm disgusted with the KPJ experiment but it's hard to end it at the point guard position when you don't have a real point guard to take his place. Daishen Nix is a joke and I don't see starting material in TyTy - especially not in his rookie year.

We absolutely lucked out with getting the #2 pick in the Green draft. Luck. No skill. If the balls don't bounce the right way - we would be in a much different place.

Last year the balls again fell in our favor with getting the #3 pick and OKC flubbing their draft to gift us Jabari (who I think will develop well over time if given the proper conditions).

I also don't believe the rockets wanted to tank this year. Tilman sure didn't. My understanding is in the organization they felt they would be fighting for a play in spot. This season has been a failure period.

 

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. It's hard for me to believe that Stone and Fertita didn't want to tank this year given that at least the top two spots in the draft have generational talent.

I mean if there was a year to tank it would be this year.

Still doesn't excuse the lack of development structure on this team.

 

What is the criterion for what would constitute Stone doing enough by the deadline to save his job? You can disagree with tanking all you want, but it was really the only avenue open to them once Harden bailed and with the idiotic Westbrook moves, neither of which Stone was complicit in. Saying he has until the deadline to prove he deserves the job is ridiculous and is just a reaction to the whole anti-tanking commentary. The plan was to tank until after this upcoming pick. There is no changing that now. You can make an argument that tanking never works, but it is clearly not true since both the Spurs and Rockets rode tanking to championships. It also ignores the fact that there were virtually no other options other than a road to mediocrity with Simmons or the like. The timeline has always been the 23rd season and not this year’s deadline which makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Right now, if he is huddling down with Silas and going over rotations or over playing time or players, he should be fired.

He is not qualified to make those decisions, and clearly sucks at them.

DD

 

Making ANY moves now is putting rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The job is not finished until the 82nd game is played, and a top lottery pick is secured.

Finish the job.

Then Silas can get fired and a new point guard added ....


On another note - No one is giving anything of value for Eric Gordon - Unless that thing of value is tied to long term salary and in that case, unless its an early lottery pick (It Isn't) it's not worth it.
Like I said back before the season started, If EG isn't moved before rosters are paired down to 15, he isn't traded, he's released / bought out .... CUT.

 

I agree that ranking is the right option.

Doesn't mean that this team is built correctly at the moment to foster development. Like yes we should be losing games at this point but can't we lose games while seeing our young players not being headless chickens?

Right now most analysts are saying that you are asking for disaster playing so much young talent who are still trying to figure out their game and role in the league. Imagine 5 players on the court all trying to figure out their game. It's asking for disaster. Players are always in the wrong positions. Always in the way of each other. Everyone looks clueless.

We need more vet presence sprinkled into the rotation. That should be Stone's goal for the deadline.

Consolidate young talent and get a couple of vets. There is no need to have Josh, TyTy, Garuba, KMJ, Nix, Tari etc all at the same time. Again, too many projects at the same time which also results in hindering the development of the young talent that matters more(Green, Sengun, Jabari, possibly Tari). That should be enough young talent there to develop. The rest of the roster should be filled with vets. Remember we are also adding more.gogu level young developing talent this off-season also.


My main point. We got too many projects playing at the same time on the court.

 

I don't think it's helping the young guys when the entire rotation is just development projects. That means you have 4-5 guys on the court trying to figure out their game. Hats asking for stagnation of development.

 

Correct on all points.

 

I'd honestly be more interested in the due diligence work I laid out for a coach than moves at the trade deadline - as far as his ability to retain the position. That said - I'd like to bring back an experienced point guard via trade so we can begin to evaluate KPJ more off ball and start putting Green in more positions to receive the ball off movement instead of a primary creator at the top of the arc.

Nothing we do is going to turn this team into a winner this year. The tank has been ensured since the roster was set. However, I sure would like to start breaking bad habits and start creating good ones.

 

I'm not sure I think this is fair. He brought in Wood to play with Harden - and that was working great briefly and looks good again with Luka in the Harden role. And KPJ was acquired for a bag of peanuts.

Wood brought us TyTy Washington Jr. + a future second rounder after all was said and done. I'll take that.

I actually think there are teams that would give up a late 1st for KPJ now. At least a couple seconds. And when we got him for nothing, that's a win. High upside low cost players are always a good idea when you're beginning a rebuild. Personally, I think KPJ's floor is J.R. Smith. And that guy has a couple rings.

 

The only reason to force an 11 man rotation onto a coach is to maximize losing

 

Good points and I agree to a certain extent. The devil is in the details in terms of adding vets before the deadline. Who is available? How will effect your cap space? What do you have to give up, future 1sts, developing players? I would love to bring in a Conley or some affordable vet that won’t ruin your cap space, but it takes two to tango. I don’t think it will be easy to bring in that type of vet with guys like Gordon, Tate, or even KJM, so it bares asking what assets are you willing to give up for said vets.

 

I think KMJ can net you a Conley. That's a 22 year old talent that has potential to be a long time decent starter in the NBA vs a aging 35 year old vet pg who is competent but why would the Jazz even want that type of guy now unless they just want to be mid play in teams for the next half decade.

We need Conley more than KMJ now and the Jazz can at least add a single piece to a potential rebuild.

 

I'd give up, any of a combination of Josh Christopher, TyTy, KJM, Milwaukee's first, eric gordon, bruno fernando and even potentially usman garuba