KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

It makes a pretty big difference

 

Run the court at high octane pace. Pfffffft

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fastbreak-points-per-game?date=2023-01-02

We are 26th.

Kpj can't run fast break most of the time cause man take too fking long to think/make the proper pass.

Passing is overrated? Spoken like a tru kpj stan.

From blaming other teammates to now attempts to disregard the game itself to justify kpj at being pg.

 

That's what I was saying, it shows style, not efficacy.

Also when you are a combo guard, you aren't always looking to create for others. So the "stat" is based on a false premise to start with.

 

KPJ would thrive in a Mike Dantoni 7 seconds or less offense mentality (not his James Harden vs Warriors offense)

 

Why would you want a young athletic team to limit possessions and slow the pace to a crawl?

Why would you think a offensive system of one guy holding on to it for 20 seconds and passing it off on a team full of talent that needs to develop a good thing? How many easy looks can one generate unless you are Luka freaking Doncic from holding on to the ball that much?

Does KPJ have Doncic level talent to warrant holding on to the ball THAT MUCH with so few potential assists?

 

It isn't based on any false premise. It's very simple.

Potential assists per time of possession is a great way to determine if the effectiveness of a pg and whether he's holding on to the ball too much for such little potentially assists.

 

My issue with kpj isn't that he holds the ball too long, a lot of skilled pg do it.

It's that the potential assists he generates isn't that good or the iso shots he takes himself blows/inefficient.

Folks like to blame silas for the offense system or his teammates, but I blame the pg cause we all seen what luka and Harden can do on a nightly basis running this type of offense.

If his teammates can't score, kpj needs to carry the scoring load. Man can't even do that.

 

Decided to look this up and here's what it looks like -

Potential assists / minute of possession for top assist guards in the league-
Halliburton - 2.62
CP3 - 2.43
Conley - 2.38
Trae - 2.12
Harden - 2.04
Ja - 1.79
Luka - 1.69

KPJ - 1.70

It doesn't seem like KPJ is the outlier that you were implying he was.

 

It's really not though.

It really is just a pace related stat that favor guards who are almost exclusively looking to pass and do so quickly..... again, style not efficacy.

A guard could attempt an assist every 2 seconds he has the ball leading to a ton of turnovers but a high potential assists per time of possession and another guard could dribble the ball for 20 seconds before getting an assist literally every single possession and they'd have a very low potential assist per time of possession number.


Basically you just saw KPJ's potential assist number and you want to find a way to bash it... because narratives.

 

Hmm. The ones that are close to him are superior scorers. Luka and ja are better scorers.

While harden and the rest r better passers.

A 0.3 difference from harden and kpj is dramatic, no? Eye test u can clearly tell that harden is the superior player/passer. I don't know how much of an impact this stats does to support that notion.

 

I don't think it's a good thing, I just thing this is a silly stat that isn't really examining what you're trying to examine. I'm not supporting KPJ or his playstyle, and of course he doesn't have Luka talent. But that's not what I'm saying or doing here, I'm attacking the use of this stat as a measure of anything useful. I don't think it's meaningful and I don't think it's measuring what you think it's measuring.

 

You're completely worthless so your opinion is the same

 

Okay you don't support this playstyle. So what is the disagreement here?

 

DD

 

The disagreement is that it's not a good use of statistics. I get what you're doing and I think you're taking a good approach. You want to see if KPJ is good at generating potential assists. You know that just comparing the raw total of potential assists isn't the best approach, you want to turn it into a rate stat. And I think that's a good idea, getting a rate of generating potential assists is good. So now you have to pick something to create this rate stat, you have to take potential assists and divide it by something. You chose time of possession, and I disagree with that choice. I think it's a poor choice for a multitude of reasons. It punishes players for isolating, it punishes players for longer possessions, it punishes players who dribble the ball up the floor, I could go on. I think it has too many flaws and measures too many things unrelated to what we're trying to measure.

And unfortunately I don't have a suggestion to improve it. I'm not sure what the correct option is here to create a good potential assist rate stat, I'm not sure the data is even there without actually watching the possessions and taking a bunch of manual measurements. But regardless, I don't think potential assists divided by time of possession is the right measurement here.

 

1. Yes it should punish players for holding on to the ball too long or isolating too much unless they are James Harden or something. This is a team of many developing projects. Having a novice guy who has a score first mentality dominating possessions is really not ideal.fornplaywe development.

2. Hence why the rate is compared to OTHER PGS who bring the ball up. I'm not comparing his time of possession to off guards but other PGs. Where does KPJ fall amongst OTHER pgs.

 

Hence why I pointed out that it only shows style, not efficacy. You want to complain about KPJ and you know if you just look at his potential assists he's right above guys like Beal and Curry at 20th among all guards which is more than solid for a young combo guard..... so you attempted to invent a stat that no one uses because it doesn't say anything substantive just to try and push a narrative.

Look, I get it, pushing that narrative these days is really hard to do because the numbers simply don't support it and you're doing the best you can because you are committed to the narrative.

It was at least an inventive attempt.

 

Player A dribbles the ball up the court, and after 15 seconds, he generates a potential assist. Next possession he gets a mismatch and scores in isolation after 15 seconds. That's 30 seconds of possession, 1 potential assist.

Player B dribbles the ball up the court, and after 15 seconds, he generates a potential assist. Next possession he tries to run a play, makes a bad pass, and turns the ball over after 15 seconds. That's 30 seconds of possession, 1 potential assist.

If you want a rate stat it should be able to tell that player A was successful 100% of the time and player B was successful 50% of the time. Player A ran an iso and succeeded, player B failed to create a potential assist. But according to this stat these two players are equal. I don't think that's good.

Yeah but even here it's not a level playing field. Some guys dribble the ball up the court 100% of the time they're on the court, and others don't. Devin Booker takes the ball up a lot of the time and then just passes it to Chris Paul to run the offense. Compared to Luka who dribbles it up 100% of the time he's on the court. Some guys bring it up in 5 seconds and other guys walk the ball up. There's just too much noise in the stat for me.

Anyway, I explained why I don't like the stat. If you still like it then my mistake for suggesting it's not measuring what you want to measure. But I don't think there's any point in continuing to go back and fourth on the merits of this stat.

 

KPJ is not good at adjusting the height and strength of his passes. I am not sure how potential assists are tracked, but a lot of his passes, although made at the right time to the correct player, are just not converted simply because the pass is too high, too low, not positioned correctly etc. And probably these are counted as potential assists too.

Another problem with looking at potential assists, you completely disregard how many potential assists he misses and what he does with those possessions. Both of those are bad for KPJ. He misses open players, he doesn't score efficiently and turns the ball over a lot.

 

A potential assist is any pass that leads to a shot, regardless of whether or not the shot goes in. So if the player takes the shot, it counts.