KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

I guess ill never know

 

Ok and?

My point was tournovers is not the end all be all yet people keep harping on it as if that's the defining thing we should look at.

Yes, KPJ needs to be more efficient, but it's about more than TO%.

 

Exactly, so why did that other poster try and say Billups had much better efficiency?

Do you even know what is being discussed here?

 

Francis never had a season in his entire career as inefficient as kpj’s best efficiency season, except his last season where he played 10 games for the rockets.

what you fail to understand (and idk why i keep trying to help, but whatever) is that if your TS is 50% while league average is 45%, that’s great. If your TS is 55% but league average is 60%, that’s bad. That’s why looking at TS+ is what you need to look at if you want to compare players who played many years apart

 

I think the point the person is making is that you have to look at ts% relative to era.

 

Ok so you don't actually care about efficiency.

And you should not look at league averages but the averages of the different positions.

Steve Francis has a career TS% of 53% KPJ currently is the same yet you believe he never had an inefficient season worse than KPJ?

Seems legit.

 

Eras. Hence ts+%

 

If your point is that raw turnover numbers don't tell the whole story, then you're right. But that doesn't mean that the stat is meaningless. It's about team context. The Rockets are the most turnover-prone team in the league, and KPJ is the worst offender. And he's gotten worse at protecting the ball than he was last season. It's a sloppy system overall and he's the one asked to run it.

 

The sport changes……you have to compare relative to the league. Football is similar, look at the completion % for old timer HOF qbs. Now, those % would get you benched but at the time were elite

 

It does not matter about the era because he is claiming these guys never had as inefficient a season and that they never got better at efficiency.

Stop trying to inject yourself into this convo if you don't know all the parameters.

 

Dude WTF?

Did you not just see were he said Francis never had a season as inefficient as KPJ?

Era's have nothing to do with that?

This is why I don't engage with you, try and keep up instead of being so hell-bent on making a point.

 

They absolutely do. Look at league average ts% over time in the past 30 years in the NBA.

 

Francis lowest ever TS+ was 97. KPJs best ever is 95. 100 means you are league average. Those are the inarguable facts. You can try to argue that in fact 95 is better then 97, but it is not.

 

Eras absolutely have something to do with it, it's all relative. If the average TS of the nba is 50% and a player has a 54% TS thats above average. You'd be happy with that, being 4 percentage points above average is great. If the league average TS% is 58 and a player is at 54% that's below average. That's poor efficiency, 4 percentage points below average is really bad.

 

I also think Francis' first two years in the league are underated when you look through the lense of modern analytics. For a rookie and sophomore level player Francis was surprisingly efficient for his era. The problem is during his era most analysts saw Francis through the lense of traditional splits rather than ts%.

Francis actually took more threes than normal during that era and he got to the line a lot for a rookie and sophomore guard.

Francis issue was that he stagnated and regressed after the first two years of his career.

Also relative to KPJ and Green, he came into the league much older and with a lot more basketball experience.

 

People played in different era. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. A 53% ts back then wouldn't translate to a 53% ts now. It doesn't work like that.

Just like how it's reasonable to believe that a person averaging 20+ ppg now wouldn't b scoring as much back then due to looser defensive rules

 

bad is a compliment

 

Francis was selfish. Only really wanted to play with Mobley. He had the greatest offensive threat in Yao and didn't want to get him the ball more often. McGrady was the same

 

His ultimate role should be a sixth man on a good team. On a bad team unfortunately he is getting to stay pad his stats

 

The greatest offensive threat? Like ever? Like more than his airness himself?