It's the dumbest because it's Houston. Anything Houston does is stupid. No matter if it's good or bad, it's all consistently stupid.
Is that Chris Mannix podcast east coast or Philly fan biased? If we sign Harden next offseason after we get our top pick this year that doesn't hurt the rebuild at all and makes sense since we don't have our own pick next year. Their takes sound like a reach and biased so he doesn't move. Maybe he wants to play out his career where he was most successful and his core fanbase is?
Yeah, signing vs not signing Harden is irrelevant to the rebuild. They will have (likely) 3 players, drafted in the top 3 of the 3 consecutive drafts, 21 or younger. Not to mention guys like Sengun, Eason, KPJ, etc. There are only so many roster spots on a team. Signing harden or not doesn’t effect that. Worst case scenario is a lot of players with a lot of potential get a few years of competent PG play
That is definitely not the worst case scenario. What if Harden comes back and wants to revive the Houston Harden of old with a dominant usage rate, taking the ball out of the hands of Green, Jabari, Sengun, and Wemby? What if Harden continues to be a horrible off ball player and thus cannot play alongside Sengun on offense? What if Tildo decides to give Harden a long-term deal and Harden predictably breaks down? What if he pressures the FO to make bad trades to acquire his friends? What if his ever-worsening defense means we need to make roster moves that hurt us long term in order to shore up the defense near term? And there are more I could think of. I'm not even opposed to signing him. I actually always thought he'd return. But it's very easy to envision a realistic way in which this isn't good for the Rockets.
Better then what? Current harden? Harden even right now is way better then KPJ will ever dream of ever being.
Have you tried to infuse a soon 34 year old body with youth? There is a ton you can't come back from especially when your conditioning is getting worse and your body can't get back to the Houston version of near invincibility. This Harden is used to playing with Embiid now, an MVP candidate, how do you think he'd feel playing with Bruno Fernando or even Alperen. It's far from being the same.
The worst case scenarios are basically not too much different from if the Rockets did not sign Harden and just settled for replacement level FA is available - they'd be a 20-30 win team that stinks on defense and doesn't have their own '24 draft pick. Unless someone (Green) takes some kind of currently unseen leap (or Victor, or some dramatic trade for Trae Young or whoever) i don't see any dramatic improvement in the pipeline. We've really seen enough of Green at this point to know you can't just hand him the ball say "go out there and score and win it" because he tries and you get slumps that last 3 weeks punctuated by a few supernova nights. Even if he has slightly more good: bad ratio, it's probably not enough to escape lotto town IMO If we know anything about Harden, especially late stage Harden - it's that he's an elite passer and more than willing to show it. i don't see getting one of the top facilitators in history as a bad move for guys who: struggle to create their own shots at all (Smith) who don't have the ability to do it consistently for a whole game for 82 games and who have nobody to set them up now (Green) for guys who are better off as catch & shoot players (KPJ) or for guys who are pretty good as the roll man (Sengun). I mean, the Green - Sengun P&R is good now, but Green doesn't have 1/10 of the ability of Harden to thread needles on the short roll. He's not just tossing lobs over the top, it's the no look pocket bounce in the paint I'm talking about. If Harden can set up Joel freaking Embiid, I'm pretty sure he can provide enough tea for Sengun to not get dehydrated.
Harden at 34 has the skills and the offensive awareness that makes others around him better that KPJ can only dream of having. As for his conditioning ? This is the best shape he has been in years. Plus you don’t need to be an athletic freak to make others better. You need to smarts, amazing court vision and offensive feel for the game. Even a 28 to 30 year old harden wasn’t that athletic . Seriously just stop. Harden has the court vision and smarts to set up and get his teammates great shots that KPJ dose not or never will have. That’s not something you can teach. Your logic is hilarious.
The difference is one would be more of a waste of a year for Green, Sengun, Jabari, and Wemby. That's significant. Same. But I don't see Harden necessarily giving us a dramatic improvement. Same. Yes he does pass much better than anyone else on our team. But one issue with him, whether it's been Dwight, CP3, KD/Kyrie, or Embiid, his approach has always been a "your turn / my turn" thing when sharing the load. His game isn't portable; it doesn't fit into others' games. Has Harden's game ever grown anyone else's game? Maybe it has, but I can't think of an example. I was talking about worst case scenarios. My reply was to say that the worst case scenario isn't just that Rockets will have a great passer; that in fact it could go very badly and it shouldn't be a shock to us if it does. Embiid can get his even with me as his PG. Sengun is more reliant on his surrounding players and scheme. If Harden (or anyone) just does nothing when Sengun has the ball in the high post, for example, then Sengun in the high post is DOA every time.
Just hitting the highlights - i think you're severely overselling the "Harden is a bad fit" line. People said Paul and Harden wouldn't work - obviously it paid off regardless of how it ended. We then laughed as people gave the "there's only one ball" line in Brooklyn and then when, as predicted, all the national media types expressed shock and surprise that a guy who had lead the league in assists previously went on to... lead the league in assists. For the 15 games that Brooklyn's big 3 played together, they were cataclysmic on offense averaging like 140 o-rtg, including in the playoffs. Now in Philadelphia - let's see Joel Embiid averaged a career high in PPG last year and is doing even more this year. He's been assisted on over 60% of his FGs, and when Harden plays he sets him up for 4 assists a game (previously Ben Simmons was the biggest Embiid assister ever in a season with... 1.4 a game). He's leading the league in points off P&R as the roll man. Guess who's the ball handler is in the majority of those. Don't tell me it's just Harden standing around while Embiid isolates. Finally - the Sengun high post offense seems to exist in our imagination rather than reality Sengun's most effective play by far is isolation. One of the best in the league His second most is... the pick and roll. Guess whose style this fits both of these perfectly
I never said "Harden is a bad fit." In fact I said I wasn't against it. I would support the signing if it didn't cripple our cap long term and if Harden agreed that prioritizing the development of young players is more important than him getting his massive usage rate and stats. My involvement in this thread was just pointing out that there exist several realistic ways in which signing Harden could lead to a worse scenario than just "a few years of competent PG play," which is what someone had claimed. I am discussing realistic possible scenarios in which signing Harden can cause an issue. In your opinion, are there any potential drawbacks at all to signing Harden? Is there any scenario in which signing Harden is less than beneficial to our current young players? Because that's all I'm stating. Harden likes Hardenball; Harden likes controlling everything; Harden likes playing with his friends. All of those, IMO, could possibly lead to a scenario that is worse than "a few years of competent PG play."
You cannot roll the cap space forward and guys will be due extensions soon. Who in 2023 or 2024 is your preferred target. I would not rule out Harden, but would want additional information to make up my mind. Green and Smith could be lethal spot up shooters and Martin would be a devastating pick and roll guy. The skillset fits...
I feel like he is coming home this summer. Outside of Maxey, I don’t love the 76ers roster. Embiid is always an injury risk. Harris eh, Tucker a year older. House is still himself. we may represent his own preference to come home to a comfortable situation, and a team, with enough assets to upgrade the roster around him, and become more competitive over the course of two or three years. we may bring in James another significant veteran or two and still be able to keep our most important young players.
Watching Luka dictate the pace of the game tonight and set up his teammates at will demonstrates why Harden on a 1-2 year deal is a no brainer for the Rockets. While he’s past his prime, Harden can still manage the pace of the game and take over for stretches if needed.
What if the Sixers make the EC Finals and fail....I am doubting he wins it all but he would come close as usual. What would be enough for him to stay in Philadelphia?
