KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

That’s why i said it’s so important to look at real stats abs not box score stats. Harden had a 66 TS% that year, which is absolutely orher worldly

 

Fake news! Their box scores were comparable!

 

Last year was just a full on bashing of green a rookie by da same folks now preaching patience for kpj.

 

And usage Harden 21.4 vs 25.8. But they are KING of raw numbers when it comes to KPJ.

 

Y’all can complain about efficiency, but he posted a +22 tonight. +22!!!

 

maaaaaaan someone is sure is super bitter about Green improving. what a sad little man

 

He needs to be more decisive when he has the ball. The longer he has it, the worse things get. Just make your move and go or pass it, damn

 

Excited about the way Garuba played tonight. His defense and passing is very intriguing.

love how efficient Eason is already, and he hasnt really even learned how to finish offensively yet. But none the less he comes in for 18 min and scores 10 pts/7 reb/2 blocks and a steal. Ridiculous.

Jabari is so much of a better player than his box score shows. Super efficient shooting, great defense. Can u imagine if we actually ran plays for him instead of having him just camp out on the 3 pt line?

Green with another commanding all around performance. Not the best shooting night for KPJ but he did other good things; played better defensively, limited his TO’s. Sengun dominating the boards; when he learns to finish better at the rim, watch out.

A few more of these wins and folks are gonna start rethinking the tank. I think we’ll finish somewhere in the lotto but a good chance not bottom 5.

 

ALL of them are contributing to our winning stretch right now. But KPJ stans are quick to point out that it’s because of KPJ’s improvement from last year to this. From what I can tell, he did make some improvements. But very marginal.

 

This is why +/- can be so misleading, it completely overlooks context.

Daishen Nix has a team worse -8 in 15 minutes, in a 14 point win. He was disastrous on the court other than a couple of made 3s, and even more so because he is a the primary ball handler who cannot protect the basketball (4 TOs in only 15 minutes).

The only player on the Rockets that didn't need to share minutes with Daishen Nix is KPJ. Everyone else, including Jalen Green (who had the 2nd highest +/-), had to play with Nix.

As it turns out, if you never need to share minutes with the worse player on this team to get rotation minutes, then your +/- will inherently be better.

 

That’s exactly why I chuckle when KPJ stans use that Pacers game he missed to prove his worth. Look who’s his replacement? Daishen Freaking Nix! If anything, the fact that we were able to build a 20 point lead early in that game speaks volume.

 

If we get Turner do you want him to come from the bench or to demote one of Sengun/Jabari? If he starts who will be benched, Jabari or Sengun? Both players are much much better than Turner. Do you think Turner, a starter in Pacers will accept to come from the bench?

Turner AT 8th Year: 17.5 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.4 apg in 29.4 mpg
Sengun AT 2nd Year : 14.6 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 2.2 apg. in 26.8 mpg
Jabari AT 1st Year : 12.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 30.5

It seems that you will suggest Jabari to be demoted but don't forget, he is a rookie. If Sengun and Jabari only gets Turner's stats at 8th year both should be considered "bust".

Why you want to make Rockets worse to replace a mediocre player with one of the better one? Both Sengun and Jabari are more talented and dearer than average Turner.What is your agenda? Do you think Turner will accept Garuba/Bruno role in this team?

 

Yeah, sure. The fact that he didn't play with Nix during the 15 minutes Nix played was the reason KPJ had, far and away, the best +/- on the team. Give me a break. Y'all KPJ haters will do anything to diminish his impact.

+22 when you play 30+ minutes is fantastic. You simply cannot argue your way around that. +/- is a flawed metric when looking at limited minutes, but it's far less flawed when comparing the +/- of players who played similar minutes.

Here is the breakdown of +/- for the game of players who played 20+ minutes: KPJ (+22), Green (+18), Smith (+13), Gordon (+6), Sengun (-3), KMJ (-1). Your excuse simply does not explain such disparity.

 

Now that we have established that the +/- result in a single game is worthy of judging how well a player played, the rest of the season will be entertaining. A quick check shows the 3 worst +/- totals on the team up to this point are KPJ, Green and Jabari.

My guess is single game +/- being touted as an accurate barometer of play quality will quickly be shelved.

 

There is no hating, you fundamentally just don't understand what +/- is.

By all accounts, KPJ didn't have a good game, at least on offense. He took a lot of bad shots, turned it over a lot etc. However, you look at the one single stat (+/-) where he was positive in, and you conclude that he had a good game because anyone with this positive of a +/- can't possibly have had a bad game. However, the problem is +/- is a team stat, and you can put up 0/0/0/0/0 on the court and still walk away with +10.

I have already explained that Nix was terrible on the basketball court, with a -8 in only 15 minutes of play time in a 14 point win. That it and of itself would already be a reason why Green didn't have the highest +/- instead of KPJ (since Green played 4 minutes with Nix, which is a very long time). In fact, if it was anyone else more capable than Nix, or if KPJ had to play with Nix instead, the +/- in the starting line up would have been a lot more even.

+/- has uses over a longer period of time, but it has severe limitations in a game to game setting.

 

When your argument is that KPJ didn’t have a good game because Green (who had a great game) played with Nix for 4 minutes, and, thus, had a slightly lower +/-, you know you’re straining logic.

 

The point is that you can’t argue that KPJ was a net negative on the floor when he put up the highest +\- on the team in an impressive victory. It’s an absurd position that proves KPJ critics, in many ways, are blinded by bias.

 

When your only argument that KPJ had a good game is +/- only, you know you're straining logic.

Unless you genuinely think that 18 points on TS 49.45%, and 4 assists to 4 TOs, is a sustainable "winning stat line" for the player that has the ball the most on the team.

For your information, if Green or Smith or anyone else put up this statline, no one in their right mind could possibly say they had a good game. It means everyone else on the team has to pick up the slack, in which case they did today because both Green and Smith played well offensively, whilst the Suns were atrocious offensively (and they were a depleted team with Bridges having arguably his worse game in his career).

 

All I know is, as you said, he had the ball the most in a blowout victory against a good team, and every time he was out, the team played far worse.

 

Move over kpj, Nix has taken over this mantle.