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German Fascists learning from American Fascists

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Xopher, Dec 7, 2022.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    There wasn't even a coup attempt. Some weirdos fantasized about being in charge.
     
  2. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    Libertarians that want to control your religion, sexual preference, birth control and literature. I should know better than to read articles you post.
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    and you even comment!! which is fantastic from my perspective ;)
     
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  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Isn't there a dude called Orwell who explains phenomenon of organizations labeling themselves opposite of what they stand for? Stuff like "the Freedom institute"?

    That's what American libertarianism is. It's conservative authoritarianism(fascism... I know. You are tired of seeing that term) masked as "freedom".


    The narrow scope of actual freedom white American libertarians care about are things like having the freedom to have your own backyard firing range. You know things that privileged people care about when they say the word "freedom".

    Which brings us back to the posts by ATW About how fascism is "the merger of corporations and the state" which is an absurd premise. There is a reason why the property owners (people with means and wealth) in states turning towards fascism supported the fascists over the Bolsheviks.
     
  5. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Mussolini would disagree. He was the one that said fascism was the sublimation of everything, including corporations, to the state. "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato."
     
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  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    What's more important? Rhetoric or actions. Go ahead and tell me which side the average Italian and German land owner chose between Bolsheviks and the fascists in 1930s Europe?
     
    #26 fchowd0311, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
  7. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    *fake snake flag libertarians
     
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  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Do you have sources about this? I'm fine with Google translating German articles.
     
  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I don't know if you were aware of this, but the communists were collectivists as well. Communism had the added feature that the land and property owners were blamed for the conditions of the poor and frequently imprisoned or put to death. What would incentivize them to choose communism in that case? That is not quite the proof that fascism is some free-market paradise akin to libertarianism that you think it is. The fascists nationalized industries and handed them over to cronies to run for the state. At the most basic level, fascism is totalitarian and collectivist, just like communism. Your comment is ironic, because it is the rhetoric that truly distinguishes fascism and communism more than the outcome.
     
  10. IBTL

    IBTL Member

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    Sounds familiar
     
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  11. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    In return, I hope American automakers learn from German automakers.
     
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  12. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Bro the notion of the "free market" is expressed by a wide range of people including fascists. Just like how North Korean leaders call their government a Democratic Republic....

    There is a very explicit reason besides the commies wanting to take the land away from land owners. It's because land owners in a country have a significantly higher probability of being part of the social hierarchy that is benefited under fascism. Remember, one of the main tenants of fascism is a strong social hierarchy. Land owners who embrace the national and ethnic identity are near the top of that social hierarchy. Land owners also typically are part of the ethnic and religious hegemony of the nation as migrants who aren't part of that culture typically are tenants who rent and don't own property.


    And the dichotomy between fascism and communism is often the only choices presented because usually when these movements hold enough sway to genuinely shape national politics, things like the economy are probably down the shitter and these polar extremes become more popular sentiments.

    In reference to the US, as wealth inequality increases more as time moves forward, more people are going to be open to extreme rhetoric such as blaming property owners and wanting to take their property by force or blaming society straying away from traditional values and allowing mass amounts of migrants that aren't part of the ethnic/cultural hegemony and desiring to remove all those who don't belong to that ethnic and cultural hegemony by force.


    Both extremist strains are products of hard times. One is used by those in power to make sure those who aren't but share the same ethnicity and culture don't blame those in power but the migrants/Jews etc. One is used by mostly workers and laborers who blame the capitalist owners.
     
    #33 fchowd0311, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  14. Raz

    Raz Member

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    They had precise plans to storm the Reichstag and assassinate members of parliament/government. With the AfD member's access card that would've been easily possible.
     
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  15. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    So do citizens from all walks of life. There are in hate groups all around the country. We have a lot in Texas.
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    The fascists don't extol the free market though. The fascist government of Germany was literally called the National Socialist German Workers Party. They called themselves socialists and were collectivists who venerated the state over the individual. Where else did we see that? Oh yeah, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, who called themselves socialists, were collectivist, and venerated the state over the individual.
    People who are party loyalists stand to benefit. People who are wealthy but are not party loyalists tend to be purged. Just like the lower classes. There were plenty of powerful Nazis that didn't come from wealth and privilege, but they all were all in for Germany and Hitler, so they didn't get purged. The same as the Soviets. If you were a loyal Stalinist, you were in like Flynn. If you were against the communists, rich or poor, it was off to the gulag with you.
    There are always other choices. You never have to choose a collectivist ideology, you can always stand for the individual. Sometimes it will cost more than others.
    They are really two sides of the same coin though. Both want to concentrate power and purge the undesirable. Both want to empower the state over the individual. Neither want to respect individual rights. The only real difference is who they pick as their Boogey Man. Reject both. Reject authoritarianism and collectivism in whatever language it is presented. Stand for the rights of the individual.
     

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