KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

So, by listing a bunch of really good guards who aren’t averaging KPJ’s numbers, you’re trying to prove what, exactly?

The fact is that KPJ haters like you live in a fantasy world where KPJ takes every shot, hoards every possession, etc. at the behest of other players, including Green. Here’s reality:

Possessions: KPJ 17th, Green 13th
Usage: KPJ is outside the top 50, Green is 36th
Shots per game: KPJ 43rd, Green 23rd

This idea that our team is somehow centered around KPJ ISO ball is simply not based in reality. I think it stems from a couple game early in the season based on plays obviously called by Silas.

 

I’m proving that some little list of the few guys averaging at least 19, 6, and 6 is completely meaningless

2nd paragraph is a useless strawman

KPJ: 7th in the entire NBA in total time of possession…13th in the entire NBA in touches…that’s the reality…and with that, we’re supposed to pretend like an inefficient 19 points and a measly 6 assists with 4 turnovers is something…as if a ton of players couldn’t average 19 points on 15 shots and 53% TS or give u 6 assists and a bunch of turnovers if they controlled the rock as much as KPJ…

come join the rest of us in reality

 

Of course he’s high on any list of total time and possessions. He’s been healthy and brings up the ball. Those are nearly worthless stats for this discussion, and I think down, you know it. What you’re arguing — many players could put up 19/6 if used a lot — goes towards usage, and he’s not even top 50. Sorry, but your argument simply makes no sense.

 

What doesn't make sense about it? Do you disagree there are dozens of NBA players who could average 19/6/6 if given the freedom and role that KPJ has?

 

Yes, I disagree. Based on the numbers I quoted, KPJ simply isn’t used as much as many here believe. He brings up the ball, which inflates his TOP and overall possession stats, but otherwise is pretty low in the rankings with regard to usage, shots per game, etc.

 

Yeah I know how much he's used, and his numbers reflect it. Like you brought up he's 46th in shots per game (he's also 23rd in FTA per game), and that lands him at 43rd in points per game. This team asked him to be a point guard and run the offense, you can look at usage or TOP or whatever else you want, but in terms of assists per game he's 23rd in the league.

There are currently there are 11 guys that are averaging at least his stats (19/5.7/5.6) or better, and if you bump that down to 19/5/5, it's 15 guys. I think it's pretty reasonable to believe there are a handful more who would be capable of this if that's what the team has asked them to do, like the rockets have asked KPJ.

 

good Lord

only guys in front of KPJ in time of possession…Luka, Harden, Morant, Garland, Young, Haliburton, Brunson…with Cade and SGA right behind

all either far better playmakers, or the offensive engine of their team

I think u know u have zero argument

acting like simple usage rate captures the whole picture is laughable…Harden’s usage rate is just 27%, Jordan Poole and Jalen Green currently have a higher usage rate than him

Who actually dominates the ball the most between the 3 tho? I’ll wait…

Tyrese Haliburton has the ball in his hands a lot taking 15 shots and dishing out 11 assists, his usage rate is just 23%…barely 2% higher than Tari Eason

so no, it doesn’t just go towards usage, that’s silly

 

While interesting, this also really isn't a fair comparison given the context. For example, you are assuming KPJ wouldn't post better numbers in certain categories if given the flexibility of those ranked above him. For example, take Devin Booker -- he averages about 5 rebounds and six assists a game. BUT he's also taking 20+ shots per game vs. KPJ's 15.

In general, KPJ is a good all-around basketball player given his usage rate and shots per game. And no, I don't think there are "dozens" of players who would average his numbers if given the same shots per game and usage rate.

 

There is no player in the league whose ts% and ast/to ratio is worse than kpj and plays as many minutes as kpj. Very exclusive club. There are 5 other such players who plays more than 25 minutes and one of them is jabari.

 

Usage rate is not perfect, but it’s a far more persuasive argument than TOP in arguing that an offense caters to a specific player, which is essentially what you are doing.

Guys like you say KPJ is bad, but only actually bring up good players. Tell you what — give me an example of a current player who you deems “sucks” that is outside the top, say, 30 when it comes to usage, but who is also averaging 18+ along with 5+ assists.

 

I didn't just read it. KPJ stans have reached to another level. HOW MUCH MORE FLEXIBILITY HE CAN EVEN POSSIBLY HAVE?

He's a horrible defender, he's turning the ball over like there's no tomorrow, he's shooting with %40 from the field and he still gets 35 minutes per game. What flexibility are you even ****ing talking about?

 

I'm not assuming that, I never said anything like that. My argument isn't even about KPJ. You just said that you don't think dozens of players could average 19/6/6 if given the opportunity, and I'm disagreeing with that. I think there are probably at least 40 players that could do it if you asked them.

 

You made a comment to me that I was using Jalen Green as a shield to
protect KPj. I showed that it's more of a philosophy of today's
NBA. I don't care if you agree or disagree.

The rest was directed at Frank who seems to be making podcast
content off of what I'm posting. I could be wrong. He is taking the
big man side of view where I'm taking the guards point of view.

Silas will need to adapt and find a happy medium somewhere in
the middle. I do respect Franks view and I welcome all points of
view. I'm in my 50's but am always open to learning more about
basketball even as a person who, eats, drinks, and sleeps basketball.

Unfortunately, our discussion maypk is above your pay grade.

The Warriors are literally a Read & React scheme.......whom happen to
be the current champs. So trademark of bad coaching is very
subjective.

You assume all errors are on KPj and that every player is doing right.
What if the teammates are not screening off ball or not cutting or
not making the extra pass?

Warriors ( Cutting ) 22/23
Player......poss......freq.....NBA percentile
Looney.... 2.2........42.9...............71.0
Wiggins....2.0.......11.7...............50.3
Dray..........1.5.......16.3................49.0
JaMychal..1.3......26.7................96.4
Curry..........1.0......3.8..................88.1
Klay............1.1......6.1..................56.5
Kuminga....1.0......15.5................37.6

Now not all Read & React are created equal. Warriors do a lot of off ball
screens for back door action along the baseline (Princeton Offense elements)
and Above the Break (for some Triangle Offense elements)....get the shooter,
slasher, cutter free with options on heading towards the rim or popping
out for a shot.

Silas I believe does more off ball screening while with Dallas for some
curl action around the off ball screen. Rockets don't have that timing yet.

Rockets ( Cutters ) 22/23
Player........poss..........freq..........NBA percentile
Kenyon.......1.7............17.2.................61.9
Garuba.......0.7............18.4..................7.2
Eason.........1.1............11.7.................16.1
Green.........0.5..............2.0..................28.0
Sengun.......1.6............10.9.................22.8
Jabari.........0.4.............3.4....................1.5

Possessions per game are miniscule as per my eye test.
Don't assume all the teammates are cutting and KPj is missing
them.

In 19/20 Dallas (Silas)
Player..........freq......NBA percentile
Porzingis.....7.0.................93.3
Powell.........26.0................66.6
D Finney-Smith...7.7..........79.0
Kleber...........8.1.................69.2
Doncic..........1.7.................82.8
Justin
Jackson.......8.0..................66.9
Boban...........8.8.................98.2
Delon Wright...3.9...............79.0
WCS...............22.6...............77.1

So do the Rockets have Doncic drawing the gravity of the defense....no.
Will Jalen Green draw the gravity of the defense as well........yes, eventually.

It's up to the Rockets to get players around him that can knock down threes
and ride his coattails in creating as well.

 

And I don’t think they could while also remaining outside the top 50 in usage rate.

 

KPJ is in good company.

DD

 

I’m not sure what this even means. For instance, there are a ton of guys whose TO/Assist ratio is worse than KPJ’s who also average over 30 minutes. Giannis, Grant, Bray, Strus, Vuvevic, Wagner, Porzinigis, Johnson, etc. The difference is Spurs fans actually support a young guy like Johnson despite the fact that he averages only one more point than KPJ on a worse TS% along with fewer rebounds and assists.

 

KPJ is way better than most agenda driven folks care to admit.

They just want a pass first PG to play.....never mind that no one has those anymore.

DD

 

With markedly different results the winning teams….

He just isn’t meant to be a team’s primary ball handler unless you are trying to get a high draft pick.

 

Kevin Porter Junior does NOT possess the skills, instincts and fundamentals to be a point guard or to be a creator since you love positionless basketball so much. Just go few pages back and enjoy the art of Kevin Porter Junior's pick and roll play.

 

Well not at 22 years old....and only 13 months into learning the position, but the Org is thinking 2 years down the road. so....

DD