The Liberal Patriot: A 3-point plan for Democrats

If I am reading this thread and previous threads correctly, most of the posters on it are Democratic voters. Every single one of you have proven why Democrats cannot win in the numbers they should based on political leanings. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. I am saying the Democratic Party is a melting pot and the GOP is a monolith. 2016 proved this. No matter how much people in the GOP hated Trump they voted for him because they believed the alternative was worse. The Bernie Bros flipped out. The Dems didn't hang together like the GOP did and sped up this descent to madness. On one hand it is great. They stuck to their guns. On the other hand this **** is winner take all. Once you formalized candidates you stand behind them and vote for them. The Democrats just take their toys and go home. The Democratic Party is not a party. It is hodge podge of people thrown together who vote for the same candidate...sometimes. Until the Democrats hold their noses as a group and say "**** it. I'm voting for whoever the party candidate is and I am going to show up and vote" this madness will never end.

Does this turn the Democrats into the GOP? Sort of, but in a good way. Hopefully the Democrats would not nominate a narcissistic, self-serving, madman.

 

It’s more basic than that. Group identity is important for a lot of reasons such as self esteem and defining one’s group as being exclusive or special is great for self esteem. For example I tell my students all the time that not everyone can be a Judoka.

In this situation we have a self identified “Leftist” saying that very few people are Leftists and most Americans are actually against being Leftist. As evidence he cites some politicians engaging in a symbolic gesture as “Liberals” while the Leftists are the ones in the streets doing sh^t and not just doing a photo op.

Sure that’s fine you want to identify yourself as being genuine and the rest as being posers. The problem is that doesn’t get a lot done.

Politics is the art of compromise.

To get anything done requires coalition building, cutting deals, etc.. just going. Around accusing erstwhile allies and potential partners of not meeting your standards just means that you’re likely going to spend a lot of time frustrated.

MLK understood this and for how frustrated he might be at the white liberal he still knew he had to work with them to get Civil Rights passed.

 

then, how do you explain Biden beating Trump by the largest margin of victory ever for the popular votes. Also the Dems winning the Presidency in 2008, 2012 and 2020

you've conveniently forget 2008, 2012 and 2020

 

Dude what do you want us to do? I vote straight ticket Democrat. What comprise do you want me to make? Agree with your positions on a BBS?

This has nothing to do with "group identity". This has everything to do with being gaslight that a political family amassing 9 figures of wealth just from the information they obtain while being elected leaders is normal and we should not be critical of those polticians and level of them derogatory terms like "establishment".

 

Popular vote yes. Drill down on how many votes Biden won by in swing states.

In 2020 31% of Americans say they are Democrats 25% say they are Republicans. 41% say they are independent. Of those independents 50% lean left and 39% lean right.

The Democrats should be winning every election. Not just presidential, but national elections. Yes there is gerrymandering, but that only matters in House elections. In general the GOP hangs together much more than the Democrats.

 

Here is a good thought exercise. Ask 10 leftists "What is a leftist?". Then ask 10 Republicans "What is a Republican?"

I'm willing to bet on one side you would get about 6 different answers. On the other maybe 2 or 3.

 

Things are cyclical. Dems are losing working class, non college educated while gaining middle class, suburban college educated folks. What does the GOP really offer the working class? Just someone to blame for their lack of adaptability and their entitlement? It's funny, pre 2016 these folks would be part of the "takers" in the "takers vs makers" GOP ideology they pushed from 2008-2016.

I don't see how you can argue (and I read the article) that "manufactured" conservative outrage isn't "a real problem". Is there an argument that it isn't "as big" of problem? Sure, but I see none to suggest it isn't a "real problem".

 

Conservatives fall in line and liberals don't.

 

When are they going to show the data with crime and economic trends and how more policing isn't what causes downward trends but getting of recession or inflationary periods have significantly more effect?

 

Honestly didn't know I had so much clout in American politics that my way of debating online will effect the perception of the "progressive movement" as a whole.

This is the same argument MAGA people use to justify voting for Trump. "you said mean things, therefore I vote Trump".

 

Sure you can. You can support equal rights for the LGBTQ+ community just like you do in other group of people.
The problem with Democrats is they tend to get stuck in extreme details and are afraid to push back against the extreme in the party. It’s perfectly fine to have a narrow party platform and to even disagree with other members of your own party when it comes to examples. The Democrats threaded the needle very well when it came to black and women’s rights. There is a big difference between saying cops shouldn’t turn on the hose against peaceful black protestors in Selma or Montgomery and saying you support the Black Panther Party. Make no mistake there were democrats that supported the BPP but there were as many that didn’t.

 

This is true. Moderate and conservative democrats would largely say “get back in the corner”. This is also part of what makes being a progressive so hard. It takes 20-50 years to pass something that a progressive wants passed right away. Look at mar1juana reform for example.

 

LGBTQ support isn’t defined by half of the country as moderate or extreme though. That’s my point. FoxNews has been running segments the past few months where they basically allow no daylight between being gay and being a pedophile. If you support the rights of LGBTQ people in general you’re an extreme lib and likely a groomer to half of the country.

So I just don’t think Democrats should worry about being moderate in a way that’s going to impact a damn thing. If you believe gay and lesbian people should have the same rights as you or I don’t dilly dally around it trying to find some made up popular middle ground. Just be strong in your convictions and voters will reward that. Nobody rewards politicians who try to find some silly “centrist” position on these topics. Of course if you are off the rails with it like saying you think children should be forced to use genderless bathrooms with no stall doors to gain an appreciation for everyone’s private parts… yeah that’s too far and even liberals will think you are a creep.

But if your positions are perfectly humane and reasonable there’s no reason to pu$$y foot around and try to appease so-called moderates that don’t really exist.

 

That’s good and being pragmatic but claiming that only a few can be “Leftists” and that this country is against being Leftists certainly seems like parading a sense of elite group identity.

For example I think most people are against politicians profiting off of their position and many including even some of those on the Right support a ban on congressional stock trading. Taking that stand I don't think is something particular to just being in a small group.

You can identify politically whatever you want. My only point is that if you want things done ideological purity isn’t the way. I’ve made similar points to those who identify as Libertarian.

 

I don’t entirely agree but I respect your opinion. There are a number of moderate democrats and independents that don’t agree with some of the more extreme positions on LGBTQ+ rights taken by some Democrats and that can have a big difference in elections.

 

You say there are extreme positions but I don’t see examples. Just out of curiosity, which Democrat is running on extreme support of Lgbtq rights and what policies are those?

Even if there are policies on their platform it doesn’t matter because what gets through is much more simplistic. People are 110% more likely to get their opinion based on a tweet of a Democrat like let’s say Nancy Pelosi walking in a pride parade than they are to understanding her policy positions on trans bathroom rights to be written into law at the federal level (which I don’t even think is a thing and is widely considered a local school district or private business issue).

FoxNews wants to do a segment trying to paint Pelosi as a groomer pedo, what’s going to be the most effective evidence they have in that segment that is going to change peoples minds… I would say it’s the visual of her at the pride parade and whatever nonsense Tucker Carlson is lying about. The policy positions can’t even cut through that if that tells a much more moderate and reasonable story.

Which again is why I tell Democrats to not take the bait to even try to find a middle ground if there is one. Of course you shouldn’t sign onto crazy legislation that would put kids into situations where the law might require them to maybe catch a glimpse of something they shouldn’t see… yeah of course that would be extreme but I don’t see any evidence that legislation is actually being proposed that would do that. It’s more of the latter (photographed at a pride parade, etc.)

Anyways… you know who wants us debating nonsensical Lqbtq issues and culture wars??? The politicians and billionaires they serve who have horribly unpopular policies they are selling behind closed doors that rip off the American people.

THAT is how Democrats should respond every time this crap is attempted to be used to make the debate about Dem vs Republican about culture wars or groomer/pedo conspiracy theories. It’s a calculated distraction to rob us all blind.

Democrats shouldn’t take the bait, stand firm, and redirect the conversation to the fact that this culture war debate is a distraction because Republicans do not want Americans debating their actual policy positions which are horribly unpopular.

 

Many of these issues social issues are a no win situation for Democrats. For example how do you have a productive discussion regarding CRT when it isn't being taught and schools and most of the critics can't even define what it is? CRT has turned into a vague catchall for whatever makes parents uncomfortable about what is being taught in schools. The problem is that there is a lot of US history that is uncomfortable to learn about. Slavery is uncomfortable, so is the internment of Japanese Americans but are we really not going to teach those because it makes some students and parents uncomfortable? I don't think this is an issue that Democrats can win by changing minds as how do you change someone's mind about something they don't even know exactly what they are upset about it.

 

Gov overreach. This is what the GOP is doing. Create political strawmen then implement laws that have unintentional (or intentional, who knows anymore) harm. I would just group many of these social issues as that.