Breaking 1-06-21: MAGA terrorist attack on Capitol

Not trusting the government's motives is always a good thing.

 

As of right now, he is above the law.

 

I'm pretty sure even the Committee members don't believe Trump will actually testify. Subpoenaing Trump was about making a statement than it ever was about really getting him before the commitee.

 

I disagree. Educating yourself on the government's actions and their motives is a good thing. Too often, "skepticism" manifests itself in lazy conspiracy theory instead of any genuine search for the truth. Healthy distrust is only healthy if you put in some work to understand.

And the insinuation here is a good example. A number of people informed on the Proud Boys to the FBI on their illegal and seditious activities. @Commodore and J Michael Waller share a headline and want me to lazily conclude that maybe the FBI is somehow implicated in Jan 6 or else manipulated some Proud Boys to entrap them. I think they are not so interested in me reading the article, which is behind a paywall, which describes how the informant, Greg McWhirter, had informed the FBI for months but doesn't look to have provided the FBI actionable intel about the planning on the Jan 6 event. And that a second informant, Abdullah Rasheed, had himself reached out to the FBI about the planning of Jan 6 because he was alarmed at Rhodes' violent language, but that the FBI didn't even contact him about it until after Jan 6. There is nothing in that article to indicate that the FBI did anything improper (other than perhaps not being proactive enough) like instructing them to goad Rhodes into doing illegal activities, but the propagandists share the headline (with the comment, "NYT confirms that FBI asset was among alleged leaders of violence at US Capitol on January 6"), under the guise of healthy skepticism, to try to undermine my confidence in the FBI without showing jack **** about why. Platitudes about not blindly trusting the government is nourishment for the conspiracy theorist and the propagandist. The FBI aren't saints and I'm fine with skepticism and even investigation - but bring something, don't bring me bullshit lazy insinuation based on nothing and expect me to give you the time of day.

 

What do you think it say about that person? Also, what demographic overwhelmingly does that?

 

Yes and good post.

Skepticism is important and yes we should be skeptical of government motives. The problem is though there is a differrence between healthy skepticism and reflexive cynicism. THis is something we see all accross the political spectrum where out of cynicism of the government and other institutions leads to far fetched conspiracy theories of all sorts.

Again this is where critical thinking is important.

 

Building on my last point, how about you just tell me which demographic that is, maybe show some data, and say why it matters which demographic doesn't appreciate cooperation with law enforcement instead of making some insinuation with rhetorical questions.

As for what I think it says about a person that they would askance at cooperation with law enforcement, I think they're opportunists using deceit to win arguments and have no genuine interest in the truth, much less good governance.

 

Sure, it is black Americans who have a well-established anti-snitching culture. You may have heard phrases like snitches get stiches. There was even a PSA like video made called Stop Snitchin' - Wikipedia. It matters because black Americans are disproportionally the victims of violent crime and this anti-cooperation culture makes it far worse as it makes it more difficult to bring the perpetrators of the crimes to justice. This is not new information of course, everyone knows this. There is constant reference made to it in popular culture. You saw one instance of right leaning white people doing it and made "some insinuation with rhetorical questions" because you apparently didn't consider the history and implications beyond the very current dissatisfaction Trumpers have with federal law enforcement.

 

Italian Americans have a history with the same ethic. Asian neighborhoods in the United States deal with the similar attitudes. It isn't one demographic that has the attitude.

 

Thanks. I also think the snitches-get-stitches attitude for street crime to be counter-productive, even if it is informed by a history of abuse. But, it still isn't all that relevant to the phenomenon of back-the-blue Trump supporters' unsubstantiated mistrust of the FBI.

 

But the racist told me it was only the Black folks who have a well-established anti-snitching culture?!?!

 

I never said it was one demographic that has the attitude, I said one demographic overwhelmingly has a culture of non-cooperation, which is true. Yes, other cultures have also refused to cooperate. The refusal is less common, both as represented in the broader culture and from my experience with hundreds of criminal cases. As usual, the answer is not always and never, it is more in some cases and less in others.

 

nothing to see here.

 

The questioning is bogus. Did they have informants?

The answer was and should be yes if the FBI was doing their jobs.

The second part of the questioning is pure crap.

They probably dressed as Trump supporters every day of their lives since the informants would have been Trump supporters. So yes they were dressed like all of their fellow Trump supporters. The FBI didn't dress them like that.

Why don't you tell us what you believe this line of questioning tells us?

 

Why don't you tell us why you believe everything the government tells us?

 

If I did believe it all, I would.

If you showed evidence they did something underhanded I would believe that.

So far you haven't shown any evidence and you didn't answer the question.

 

have you shown any evidence?

 

Yes. The Jan. 6th committee showed ample evidence.

You still haven't answered the question.

 

Yes I can believe the FBI had informants among those who were at Jan. 6. I can also see why Wray wouldn’t want to reveal those informants.

The idea that the FBI actually enabled the insurrection though doesn’t match that there are now hundreds of convictions of people there and so far none of them are FBI informants. Not to mention there are thousands of posts in social media of people admitting why they are there and all of them are there on their own volition.

 

If the FBI are doing their jobs they would want informants at Jan. 6th. It is only a positive assessment of the FBI that they had informants there. It in no way shows any entrapment or trickery from the FBI.