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[CHE] A New Group Promises to Protect Campus Free Speech

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This was 20+ years ago so I don't even know if Harry Edwards is still teaching but whether it flies or not Harry Edwards is teaching a class and as such is representing the University of California at Berkeley. Under what has been posted in this thread he should be allowed to express that individual opinion even though there are many who don't agree with that, and of course many who do. That said you've made the argument in the other thread that he should not because professors shouldn't be activist and students shouldn't even know what a professor actually thinks about a subject.
     
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    ran this one by in-house counsel, she says what's more likely today is that he'd potentially face a charge of favoritism from other students. She cited a case that we currently have where a Chinese professor is being accused of "reverse" favoritism--Chinese students believe him to treating Chinese students more harshly re: grading etc.
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    An Existential Threat to Doing Good Science
    What scientists are able to teach and what research we can pursue are under attack. I know because I’m living it, writes biologist Luana Maroja.

    https://www.commonsense.news/p/an-existential-threat-to-doing-good

    excerpt:

    As an evolutionary biologist, I am quite used to attempts to censor research and suppress knowledge. But for most of my career, that kind of behavior came from the right. In the old days, most students and administrators were actually on our side; we were aligned against creationists. Now, the threat comes mainly from the left.

    The risk of cancellation at Williams College, where I have taught for 12 years, and at top colleges and universities throughout this country, is not theoretical. My fellow scientists and I are living it. What is at stake is not simply our reputations, but our ability to pursue truth and scientific knowledge.

    If you had asked me about academic freedom five years ago, I would have complained about the obsession with race, gender and ethnicity, along with safetyism on campus (safe spaces, grade inflation, and so on). But I would not have expressed concerns about academic freedom.

    We each have our own woke tipping point—the moment you realize that social justice is no longer what we thought it was, but has instead morphed into an ugly authoritarianism. For me that moment came in 2018, during an invited speaker talk, when the religious scholar Reza Aslan stated that “we need to write on a stone what can and cannot be discussed in colleges.” Students gave this a standing ovation. Having been born under dictatorship in Brazil, I was alarmed.

    Soon after that, a few colleagues and I attempted to pass the Chicago Statement—what I viewed as a very basic set of principles about the necessity of free speech on campus. My shock continued as students broke into a faculty meeting about the Chicago Statement screaming “free speech harms” and demanding that white male professors “sit down” and “confess to their privilege.”

    The restriction of academic freedom comes in two forms: what we teach and what we research.

    Let’s start with teaching. I need to emphasize that this is not hypothetical. The censorious, fearful climate is already affecting the content of what we teach.

    One of the most fundamental rules of biology from plants to humans is that the sexes are defined by the size of their gametes—that is, their reproductive cells. Large gametes occur in females; small gametes in males. In humans, an egg is 10 milliontimes bigger than a sperm. There is zero overlap. It is a full binary.

    But in some biology 101 classes, teachers are telling students that sexes—not gender, sex—are on a continuum. At least one college I know teaches with the “gender unicorn” and informs students that it is bigoted to think that humans come in two distinct and discrete sexes.
    more at the link

     
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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Interestingly enough as a TA I got accused by a Japanese student of showing bias against Japanese because of the history between China and Japan going back to WWII. That claim went no where when it was shown that another Japanese did very well and that I was a competitor in a Japanese sport.

    Personal anecdote aside I don't believe in practice regarding grading there was any favoritism by Harry Edwards. I did very well in Harry Edwards class and in the few personal interactions I had with him never felt he looked down upon me as a non-black student. The question still is that clearly Edwards is engaging in activism specifically in addressing racism towards black students. Is this his free speech right to express that individual opinion or should he not since he is a professor and also that there are students and others who did disagree with what they see as activism in the lecture hall?
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This is a good example of what we are discussing. Biologically it is proven that there are multiple sexes. Many animals actually change their sexes as they age or due to enviromnental conditions. Many animals are hermaphroditic and there are humans born with indeterminate biological sexes such as with XXY chromosomes. It sounds like Maroja is doing what exactly what she accuses others of and making an absolutist statement to try to shut down debate. IN other words being an activist.

    Now should she have the right to do that or has was put forward in the other thread should she not express an opinion. Just present the facts, including that there are animals that change sex and are hermaphrodites, it sounds like she's taking the opposite and making a definitive claim that there are only two sexes and therefore only two genders. In that case then shouldn't it be fair then for students and others to challeng that view since activism shouldn't be in the classroom.
     
  6. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you've got free speech issues woven throughout these cases as well as academic freedom issues. Related, but important to keep distinct. For example, the university had a chemistry professor (tenured) weigh in on police brutality on his private twitter account. Students complained, the university relieved him of his duties as director of undergraduate studies in chemistry.

    https://cornellsun.com/2020/06/08/c...er-tweets-defending-alleged-police-brutality/

    In that article the President remarks: “ 'We also saw the tweets by Cornell professor David Collum justifying the actions of the police,' Pollack wrote. 'While Professor Collum has a right to express his views in his private life, we also have a right and an obligation to call out positions that are at direct odds with Cornell’s ethos.'” {emph added}

    So what can be perceived as offensive speech may be actionable, or it may not. Again context matters. As a tenured professor he remains employed. The speech was unrelated to the discipline of chemistry, so really not a case (in this instance) of "academic freedom." Academic freedom usually needs some kind of connection to the academic subject matter of a professor's discipline or disciplines. The lines between free speech and academic freedom may blur, however, again depending on the case. So hard to know what to say about your Edwards example: I could imagine students today being really offended (rightly or not) by that kind of speech and arguing that it creates a "hostile and threatening atmosphere" in the classroom. Colleges and universities deal with these types of charges now on a daily basis.
     
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    this one's a little easier--these are topics related to the discipline of biology and all else being equal, there should be room for genuine disagreement to occur. The activism of trying to shut one's intellectual opponents down completely--as opposed to having a dialogue with those opponents and trying to reason with those opponents--is what that article is about. I disagree that Maroja is trying to shut anyone down and in fact is engaging in free dialogue with the very act of writing the essay.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    So in other words professors dont actually have free speech if they express an opinion on something not relate to the subject matter.

    well so much for professors have an individual right
    To free speech
     
    #149 rocketsjudoka, Nov 16, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2022
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Except she herself is making an absolutist statement and shutting down debate by taking an absolutist stance.

    She doesn’t say it is my opinion but that there is two binary genders but “There iszero overlap. It is a full binary. ”

    First off one apparently nobody told the groupers that turn from female to male as they age or snails that have two sets of reproductive organs and can simultaneously impregnate and be impregnated. Besides though how did they fit with that professors should present the evidence and arguments and students shouldn’t know where they stand?

    She’s making the argument for why as she’s taking a controversial stance and others are reacting to her controversial stance
     
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  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    there's a risk of conflating free speech with academic freedom. As I've already said, the two are related but are not the same. An excerpt from the Gordon book reviewed earlier in the thread makes the point:

    academic freedom and free speech.png
    And various statements about academic freedom and the rights of professors over the years have made similar points about the professional responsibilities of professors to be cautious about expressing overtly personal views:

    Lovejoy quote.png

    Note here that this doesn't imply an absolute BAN on faculty expressing personal views; rather such expression should not be "one-sided." That's where I think a lot of faculty go wrong.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    In the Kalven report it says "Academic freedom protects the right of individual faculty to express their views on matters of public interest without sanction. That is a precious right, that universities should not take for granted." What your posting above is saying that that isn't what academic freedom is.

    Further the Kalven report says "But from an academic freedom standpoint, this was a failure: Presidents, Provosts, Deans, and Chairs are to be "seen and not heard," unless they are speaking about university business." What you're posting above and the last few days is spefically saying that professors should be "see and not heard except for university business. You wrote "So what can be perceived as offensive speech may be actionable, or it may not. Again context matters. As a tenured professor he remains employed. The speech was unrelated to the discipline of chemistry, so really not a case (in this instance) of "academic freedom." Academic freedom usually needs some kind of connection to the academic subject matter of a professor's discipline or disciplines. "

    I understand that academic freedom and free speech can be different. Fair enough. What I find odd is someone claiming to be an "absolutist on free speech" essentially making the argument then that free speech takes a back seat when it's academia. In fact the whole point of this thread was to protect free speech on campus.
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you seem to be missing the point that academics have free speech; but at the same time have professional responsibilities not to misuse that right to free speech in particular contexts. One especially important context is inside the classroom. One should not abuse the power one has over a captive audience of 18- to 22-year olds who are perhaps in your classroom because you teach a required course. That is a very different context than being invited to speak as a guest speaker at a colloquium where the whole point of the invitation is to hear your views on possibly controversial topics.
     
  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    I will also add the personal observation that in my experience, faculty with tenure enjoy far more "academic freedom" and "free speech" leeway than junior faculty, adjuncts, lecturers, research associates, etc., without tenure
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Except the Kalven and other arguments you've presented say the other thing. You're saying right here that professors should subsume their right to free speech because of the acadmic context.

    To be fair you're arguing for self-censorship yet wouldn't you agree that self-censorship due to outside pressure such as how students might react to what you say amounts to censorship? Otherwise why be concerned about student protests?

    And yes students are a captive audience. Does that mean that their free speech rights are also subsumed to the academic context?
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    not sure they do

    again, one's individual right to free speech as a citizen stands in contrast to one's professional responsibilities in the role as a scholar/teacher.

    not sure I understand the point you're making here

    sure. Students have no "right" to employ the heckler's veto for example: the Cornell students that shouted down Ann Coulter have no right to do that. They still retain free speech rights, though. I'm not sure I understand what additional point you're trying to make here.
     
    #156 Os Trigonum, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  17. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Wokes hate free speech
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    DeSantis is then the most woke presidential candidate in History.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I am very curious to see what the Academic Freedom Alliance thinks about the calls to fire University presidents and to punish faculty and students recently.
     

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