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The Liberal Patriot: A 3-point plan for Democrats

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by durvasa, Nov 8, 2022.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Do you want a sincere perspective of a "leftist"?


    Leftists have mistrust of hierarchial systems. They don't trust a state monopoly on violence. It's antithetical to their core belief structure. Most actual leftists in America roll eyes when Democrats make fun reform their talking point.

    Yes if you want to call defining one's ideological principles as "purity" then sure.


    Beto isn't a leftist man. There isn't room in our political system in the US for leftists to actually have legitimate political power. This country did a half century war on leftism(communism) justifying many invasions and coups on leftist takeovers. It is deeply ingrained in the American ethos.


    This country is at its core a pro capitalist/anti leftist nation. That might change in a couple of decades but to pretend that the American left actually has any legitimate power is absurd. There is no room for it here.

    I think your problem here is you think "leftism" is just another word for "egalitarianism" where it's at the extreme end aka "woke". Beto is "woke" in that sense. No there is an entire economic and anti- hierarchy element to it you are completely ignoring.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I will keep on saying it but developing good candidates requires work. There are celebrities and prodigies such as Obama but to build a sustainable party you have to develop candidates. Winning elections is the best way to do that and the farm system here is winning things like state legislator. If you look at Ron DeSantis' career that is how he came up.

    It also helps to have a party machinery that can turn out the vote and register voters. REpublican success in FL didn't just come in the last few years. After Obama won twice FL Republicans went on a big push to invest in local party offices, register new voters and reach out to Latino and other immigrant community groups.
     
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  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Beto is just Beto. His policy positions get lost in the translation of what conservative Texans think of him just by his mannerisms, tone, look, and the sound of how convicted he is. Most conservative Texans couldn't name two Beto policy positions, but they sure would be able to project whatever they believe his positions are.

    My thinking moving forward is the pathway to Texas moving forward is a South of I10 strategy. San Antonio to Harris County and down to the valley. As fun is it is to see Beto on campuses, and playing guitar with Willie, it's not an election strategy. That candidate is not necessarily going to win the state Senate or Governorship, but what they will do hopefully is start moving those Congressional House and State seats towards the Democrats.

    Same goes with Florida where it is basically Texas now, and it'll take years of infrastructure to bring that state back competitive. Val Demings checked so many boxes for nation wide Democrat "centrists" (aka the Lincoln Project LOVES her) but got crushed in her actual state by the latino vote.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    That sounds a lot like a "no true Scotsman" argument.

    To be blunt it also sounds like a self-satisfying appeal to group identity. It's the not everyone has what it takes to be a Leftist. The few, the proud, the LEFTIST.

    If I recall you were a Marine so I can see the appeal to defining group identity like that.
     
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  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Love the psychoanalization.

    Anyways maybe take a sincere approach to reading modern leftist content creators. A good starting point is someone like Robert Evans. He's a writer, journalist etc and has a lot of content to read and in essence is a solid representation of the American left.

    Anyways I'm far removed from my Marine Corps days after college and now being a professional engineer, that aspect of my life is well beyond my past.


    Edit:

    Also Beto was literally a part of the Third Way cacuaus. You think that's a leftist cacuaus? He's a pro-business socially liberal candidate. I would define him as liberal/neo-liberal.
     
    #85 fchowd0311, Nov 9, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    A summary of leftism vs liberalism if summarized into a single video:

    This is liberalism:



    This is leftism:
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    "The Left" can refer to someone who is generally left-wing relative the population as a whole. Or it can refer to a brand of radical left activism that a much smaller number of people identify with, mostly growing out of social/political movements from the 60s/70s (e.g., the "New Left"). They aren't totally distinct -- ideas from the radical left do influence left-wing thinking. The vocabulary for describing left-wing politics is all over the map -- "progressives", "liberals", "leftists", "socialists". There doesn't seem to be much agreement on what these terms mean:

    Some on the Left Turn Against the Label ‘Progressive’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
     
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  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Democrats already do this.

    So did this guy write an article about what Republicans need to do, it seems they need to do exactly what he wants the Democrats to do.
     
  9. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Dude really?

    Why must you demonize everybody except for people that believe in everything you do.

    This is why we can't have nice things, WTF is an establishment Democrat anyway and why are you always othering somebody?

    Biden is establishment and you think he is tag teaming with Republicans?

    Really why are so angry?

    Establishment Democrats don't fear the left, they are the left.
     
  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Boy, you are on one today.

    Did you get turned down last night?
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Ya blue balled. Had to yank one out all by myself.
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I don't even think moderate dems in this message board would agree with that.
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Good **** my guy.
     
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Yes they would, only a few on here actually think there is a huge difference among democrats.

    The fact that you think differently shows how out of touch you are, this is why people call you MAGA because you block out everything that does not conform to what you believe like MAGA folks.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I guess I'm like MAGA then. Anyways I got some rallies to attend to now.
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I do find it ironic that it's the self labeled moderates who now are calling anyone they disagree with MAGA like.
     
  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Part of the problem here is that it's less Democrats are pushing these type of issues but that they have been definined by the Right and often are just reacting to hyperbolic and symbolic issues. No Democrat that I'm aware of has pushed CRT or transgender issues in classrooms yet they are made as to defend every incident of it even though most people can't even define what CRT is. So while yes there are certainly groups that are on the Left pushing things like Drag Queen Story hour it's definitely not something that the Democratic party as a whole is pushing.

    On an issue like immigration this is one that I will address more on liberal nationalism but I'm not sure this is a losing issue for Democrats. Most Americans appear to support things like DACA, are against building a wall (not even the Republican Congress under Trump was willing to fund The Wall), and believe that immigration is a net positive for the US. Where Democrats could gain ground is likely following Obama's strategy of emphasizing border security and deporting violent immigrants while looking for solutions for Dreamers.

    Democrats are winning the abortion issue.

    On crime this is the one that I think Democrats and the Left need the most work on. As someone who witnessed this first hand following George Floyd the inability of many on the Left to outrightly condemn the violence and looting was a problem. That so many liberals just posted 'riot is the languange of the unheard" or talk about "normative" actions and such just muddied the issue. "Defund the Police" was always going to be a problem for Democrats when many pushing it weren't even clear of what it meant and many of those it was meant to be for (inner city black neighborhoods) were against it. While yes many can agree there is racism in LE and that LE need to be held accountable they still don't like see crime rates rise and neighborhoods burning. The message should always have been we want accountability for LEO and that is happening in the prosecution of Derek Chauvin and other LEO but categorically condemn rioting and looting with no qualifiers.



    I think Democrats are already pushing this as much of the rhetoric around the infrastructure bills was about economic development and greener technology. There is a fundamental problem though is non stop increase in abundance is unsustainable and leads to many other problems. We can't have the whole world living like billionaires. That doesn't mean that improving living standards of most people isn't out of reach along with developing renewable energy and more efficient energy usage.

    In this case I will say again it's not just about pushing infrastructure for infrastructure sake but pointing out how poor infrasructure is actually harmful and hampers economic development. Unreliable power grids and undrinkable water aren't going to lead to abundance but the opposite.
    cont.[/QUOTE]

    Um what?

    Democrats are the median voter and What is the Democratic media?

    And why are these fringe media outlets speaking for the entire Democratic party?

    We both watch a lot of left leaning media and nobody is pushing anything race or gender.
     
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  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    We are calling you MAGA like, not any and everybody we disagree with.

    Stop trying to deflect and reflect on why people think of you like that.
     
    #98 jiggyfly, Nov 9, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
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  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    And why am I MAGA like?
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Another part of this plan is moderates not labeling groups like gen Z or leftists who almost always vote in their favor "maga like" and demonizing them.
     

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