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Time to fire Stone

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by my time to shine, Oct 30, 2022.

  1. Francis3422

    Francis3422 Member

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    These guys are YOUNG. We drafted Green/Sengun/Smith for what they will be in 2024.

    You get to see flashes but only that when they play NBA games.


    Smith jr in summer league was a hreat example. He was a defensive beast. You wont see that at the NBA level for 2-3 years.
     
    larsv8 and xaos like this.
  2. xaos

    xaos Member

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    Green has shown moments of superstardom and moments of being lost and confused and inefficient. For a player of his profile that's not completely uncommon. I can't tell you how to forecast his potential or how to feel about each up and down, but I do think having patience with young guys on a young team will help you enjoy the process a lot more.

    Smith hasn't shown his potential in many flashes yet, but we're talking what... 6 games into the season? Smith is a sharp shooter who hasn't been making his threes. You can write him off all you want, but there's more data (college) to suggest he'll be an elite shooter than there is data (NBA) that suggest he will suck. The gap between college and NBA is significant too. Legs get tired, you're trying to learn the speed of the game, etc. Banchero starting his NBA career looking like a stud has nothing to do with Jabari being a potential bust either. All different players in different situations with different strengths and weaknesses. What makes Banchero great today as a rookie on a losing team might not translate to making a team great in the playoffs. Personally, I think both could be core pieces to a championship team, but you're losing patience because a few rookies started off hotter than Smith and it's unfair.

    I'd worry more about Smith and Green if we had decisive play-makers on our team and some sort of offense. The offense is a product of bad coaching and being the youngest team in the NBA. For now you should look forward to this being the last year we are trying to acquire high-end talent via the draft. So what does that mean? Well, Silas will be judged more on wins and losses than he has been in his tenure here. I doubt he makes it half the season if he starts off projected to be a bottom 5 team again. It means we will be looking to upgrade and consolidate where we can to work on roster construction as opposed to having mismatch pieces playing roles they don't belong playing because of their upside or whatever other reason.

    Just view Green and Smiths progress through a wider lense than the day to day and I am confident you'll enjoy the process more
     
  3. Risingred

    Risingred Member

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    I disagree time to fire Stone.

    Jalen Green was pretty obvious the one of three picks last year draft, and Jabari Smith Jr. had been rumored to be the first pick for a few days before the draft. Half of the managers will draft the same if they have that two picks. Also, it's too early to tell those two picks are busts.

    Outside the top 3, Stone drafted Alp, JC and Garuba last year, and Tari Eason, Tyty this year. Alp and Eason are showing some encouraging signs, while JC, Garuba, and Tyty look serviceable. His signings have been sad, GM, Nix, but they are cheap and tradable contracts; also it's up the coach to give minutes to those G-leaguers. His only fireable offense is keeping Silas into the third year, but I do not know whether that is his decision, or the owner is being too cheap.
     
  4. my time to shine

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    LOL.

    I also fell in love with that Verlander pic when I saw it
     
  5. my time to shine

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    Cool analysis - except do it without operating under the assumption that I meant top 50 player all time.

    A top 3 pick needs to blossom into a top 50 player in the league (not all time) to avoid being called a bust.

    30 teams each having 5 starters equals 150 starters. 50 is 1/3rd of 150.

    I’m asking top 3 picks to be 66.6 percentile starters essentially.
     
  6. highpost1388

    highpost1388 Member

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    "In these streets"? Some of yall are cringe af. No one cares about opinions on a mod forum other than losing brain cells. Guess you don't have any left. Oh, but that's just my opinion. Put me on ignore if you're hurt "in these streets." I wish I could believe there weren't grown men behind these posts.
     
  7. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Banchero is not a top 50 player yet. Is he now considered a bust in less than 10 games of his rookie season?

    Such a nonsense take.
     
  8. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    The NBA will make sure that the Rockets will be good again.

    The problem is that teams like Detroit could be even better and getting there faster.

    The Grizz are one of the best feel good stories ever but not everyone can be them.

    That is why ownership and front office is so integral.

    Some loser coach named Stephen could be wasting the time of our projects.
     
    xaos likes this.
  9. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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  10. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Look I can't give Stone kudos for drafting them.
    But I also can't give him all of the blame.

    Aside from Mobley, it was consensus fact that there was a tier drop right behind those guys. It's not like he went out and grabbed Dyson Daniels at 3 or Jonathan Kuminga at 2.

    His fault is having a coaching staff that seems to be doing 0 on the court to develop these players and possibly dividing their attention away too much on certain other players that need to be treated as secondary pieces.
     
  11. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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  12. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    Objective, high-level evaluation of Stone:

    Our roster has been fundamentally unbalanced since Stone took over, but that’s to be somewhat expected for the early part of the rebuild. While I hated the lack of height (until recently) and the lack of a floor general (ongoing), position matters much less than talent in a rebuild; especially early in a rebuild.

    His drafting prowess is still a question, but I think we can agree that he got good talent relative to draft position in both of his drafts so far.

    I don’t know why you lock up a role player like Tate before you’ve solidified your core in a rebuild, but he’s good for the locker room and we got a hometown discount so that’s okay. The KPJ contract, while not binding, certainly forces us to pay him like a starter or lose him. Again, I would have preferred to wait on an extension, but since the contract is non-guaranteed, there’s not a lot of downside. It’s important to acknowledge that Stone tried to sign Oladipo to a bad contract and was only saved by Victor’s greed. There have been some minor signing that weren’t great, but nothing significant. Overall Stone has done fine managing our cap and contracts over the last 2 yrs.

    as far as trades it’s been a mixed bag. I’m willing to say he did okay on the Harden trade given the draft pick return, but certainly he overlooked some good young potential prospects that could have been included, and Oladipo was a mistake. He didn’t get much value for Wood, and he didn’t get much done at the last 2 trade deadlines. He’s also waited too long to trade EG, whose minutes are now cutting into the development of better prospects. He made a good trade for KPJ, but he’s also been slow to consolidate talent in favor of better assets, and he hasn’t been aggressive in trying to improve the team. He hasn’t made any bad trades so I see his track record on in this area as slightly below average.

    lastly you have to look at the coaching and player development. This is an area where there are a lot of question marks. The team is undisciplined and lacks structure. Coach Silas has been disappointing through 2 seasons. The assistant coaching staff has turned over. I’d argue that our player development hasn’t been great. As an x’s & o’s coach Silas hasn’t been good. Team culture has been an issue (especially with Wood and KPJ being early cornerstones). But…we have to keep in mind that we are super young, roster is unbalanced, most other teams have better players, and we’ve been tanking for 2 years. While there are definitely things u can evaluate with the coaching, it’s hard to get the most accurate picture given those other factors early in a rebuild.

    so overall I think you have to give Stone a B-. The poor culture exasperated by some of the personnel decisions, and the lack of aggressiveness to improve the team through trade, are the objective things you can hang on Stone. Silas wasn’t Stone’s chosen coach so he’s only partially responsible if things continue to go south. The team has a long way to go. If we have another disappointing trade deadline and/or player development and team progress stagnates or backslides, then I think Stone’s seat should get hotter, but for now, I’d say he’s done okay.
     
    AXG likes this.
  13. i3artow i3aller

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  14. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Years: 1-3 - Asset Collection
    - Ignore the product on the court
    - Focus on asset management
    - Focus on quality of draft selections
    - Focus on how well we built our foundations

    Years: 4-5 - Focus on the Team
    - Focus on quality of free agency signings
    - Focus on how well the team is performing

    Its 20 games into year 2.
     
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  15. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Stone should not tie his fate too closely to that of Silas.

    If he is smart - which I think he is.
     
    bmelo likes this.
  16. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    20 games into year 3, but point taken.
     
  17. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Lets call that year 0.

    Other than trading Harden, there wasn't much to do.
     
  18. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    He probably wanted Silas to make most out of KPJ and now he gonna scapegoat and fire him
     
  19. Alimoe84

    Alimoe84 Member

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    It's year two.

    The drafting of Jalen Green is undoubtedly the beginning of The Rebuild.
     
  20. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    dude, come on. We are just erasing year one like it doesn’t matter? The Harden trade wasn’t part of the rebuild, or the KPJ trade? Sorry, it’s year 3 in my book.
     

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