Well, that's just too bad. Good thing the Baseball Prospectus folks (and anyone who has connections to BP) are here to make sure people don't forget about how the Astros "cheated" though!
Luhnow has been gone for 3 seasons. It's not really fair to judge Click on his amateur signings/draftees for at least another 2-3 years. As for major league talent that Click has signed/traded I am very impressed
If Nick Saban is interested in coaching your college football program, it doesn’t matter who the current coach is. The current coach is gone tomorrow or the athletic director isn’t doing their job, period. In my opinion, Luhnow is the architect of the baseball dynasty of our era and did it through drafting and player development, a much more difficult path than being the GM of an organization with the finances to dominate the free agent market. So Click may not have done a poor job, but if Luhnow wants the job, c’est la vie Click
Except Luhnow was in charge when Jim Crane and the Astros were embarrassed. No chance Crane ever rehires him.
Not any more than Gomez or Fiers. But yes I was very excited that Click traded for Mancini and think it's was a great choice. It hasn't worked out which is disappointing but there are still games left. Hopefully he does something great. He has had terrible luck ( and had terrible plate appearances too) They don't always work out. This is baseball.
Maybe so, but that doesn’t make it a good decision by Crane. As for ‘embarrassed’: The report says the Astros had a desk set up with a computer just inside the hall from the dugout used to steal signs relayed to the dugout and the batter by banging on a freakin’ trash can. We may never know the truth, but let’s just say in my opinion it’s asking a lot for me to believe the owner and every single person in, or close to, The Astros organization didn’t know what was going on, but every conspiracy discovered needs a fall guy
Montero is the only real true contributor he's acquired. Everyone else on that has had an impact has been people that Luhnow got.
I don’t have a problem giving credit to anybody for making moves that contribute towards this team having playoff success. I was begging for Mancini to get a big hit yesterday. Vasquez could have gotten a run home with less than 2 outs in the 9th. Unfortunately it didn’t work out… plenty more games for those two to make some meaningful moments. As far as what happens 2-3 years from now, we’ll see. Keep in mind, the signees and system that Luhnow left behind that continues to churn out an alarming amount of MLB caliber players is exceedingly rare. We saw him oversee the development model with the Cardinals that kept them in contention for over a decade and it clearly translated to here. I’m sure all his disciples know the formula so we’ll see something similar in Baltimore, Milwaukee, and eventually San Francisco… but it happened here and it doesn’t happen everywhere.
I don't mind people giving Luhnow his deserved credit. It does bother me how much people hold it against Click that Luhnow did a good job. "These are all still Luhnow's people" as if Click should have completed some huge overhaul on an active World Series contender just so he could claim it was his team. I've already accepted that he will not get credit for it, but IMO Click's patience has done a lot to set us up for future success, patience I'm not sure Luhnow would have shown. Just because a player was selected by Luhnow does not mean his entire career trajectory should be credited to him. I sure don't remember Ed Wade getting much credit for Altuve,Springer and Keuchel. FWIW I'm indifferent to Click overall, he still has an inc. as far as I'm concerned.
Luhnow's record speaks for itself. He's as influential as Billy Bean but he actually won a World series and probably will never get any credit unless they make a movie about him.
As to Click, I think he was the best hire we could have made at the time but he seems like a one trick pony and has been disappointing when it comes to impact bats or long-term arms. His best trades were for 2 month rentals. I'm also guessing that Verlander was a Crane decision and negotiation. I have no insider information but based on what I read here and my intuition, I think Click is gone and Crane let's his son run the whole show with help from consultants and assistants. Hopefully one of those consultants in Luhnow. I wonder what their relationship is like now.
Crane’s son will run the business side of things (Reid Ryan’s old position). He’s not going to be in charge of baseball operations. Also, Click deserves major credit for the Nerris signing and the Montero trade/resurgence. This bullpen is better than anything they ever had in the Luhnow era.
Click hired 2/3/2020. Maldonado- FA 2021, extended 4/21/21 by CLICK Vazquez - traded for 8/2/22 by CLICK Gurriel - FA 2020, extended 9/29/20 by CLICK Altuve- extension 3/19/18 by LUHNOW Bregman- extension 3/22/19 by LUHNOW Pena- drafted 3rd rd 2018 by LUHNOW Alvarez- traded for 8/1/16 by LUHNOW McCormick - drafted 21st rd 2017 by LUHNOW Tucker - drafted 1st rd 2015 by LUHNOW Mancini- traded for 8/2/22 by CLICK A Diaz- traded for 11/17/18 by LUHNOW Dubon- traded for 5/14/22 by CLICK Meyers- drafted 13th rd 2017 by LUHNOW Hensley- drafted 26th rd 2018 by LUHNOW Verlander- FA 21, signed 12/1/21 by CLICK McCullers- FA 21, extension 3/24/21 by CLICK Valdez- International FA 3/18/15 by LUHNOW Javier- International FA 3/18/15 by LUHNOW Urquidy- Int'l FA 3/2/15 by LUHNOW L.Garcia- Int'l FA 7/2/17 by LUHNOW Brown- drafted 5th rd 19 by LUHNOW Pressly- 3/20/19 ( FA 19) by LUHNOW Montero- traded for 7/27/21 by CLICK Neris- FA 21, signed 11/21 by CLICK Stanek- FA 20, signed 1/7/21 by CLICK Abreu- Int'l FA 11/11/13 by LUHNOW current 26 man: Luhnow 16 Click 10 Castro- FA 20, signed 1/21/21 by CLICK K.Lee- drafted 1st rd 19 by LUHNOW Y.Diaz- traded for 7/30/21 by LUHNOW Matijevic- drafted 2nd rd 17 by LUHNOW J.Perez- drafted 2nd rd 17 by LUHNOW Brantley- FA 20, signed 1/21/21 by CLICK Bielak- drafted 11th rd 17 by LUHNOW Blanco- Int'l FA 4/27/16 by LUHNOW Dubin- drafted 13th rd 18 by LUHNOW J.James- drafted 34th rd 14 by LUHNOW S.Martinez- rule 5 12/10/20 by CLICK Maton- traded for 7/30/21 by CLICK Mushinski- drafted 7th rd 17 by LUHNOW Paredes- Int'l FA 10/15/15 by LUHNOW W.Smith- traded for 8/3/22 by CLICK B.Taylor- traded for 12/5/19 by LUHNOW Whitley- drafted 1st rd 16 by LUHNOW 40 man + injured (43) Luhnow 28 Click 15
The developmental things Luhnow created are now used all over MLB. It's still in place in the Astros system. Look at the improvement of the pitchers this yr after Strom left. Strom put the program in place and now his understudies are improving the system.
So re-signing Luhnow guys like JV and McCullers goes in the Click column? Ok. Who created the culture that made guys like JV and McCullers want to stay in Houston. People talk about the toxic culture Luhnow created, but Houston is currently a destination for FA that will sign for 5 years or less. That doesn't seem like a toxic culture to me.
Absolutely without question they go in Click's column ( though JV should go in the Crane column) You think Brantley would not have followed Springer to Toronto if Click had not stepped in and made a better offer? He decided, " Oh Jeff Luhnow was great and brought me to Houston so I'll go back there eventhough he's gone now." You think Luhnow made an acceptable (to him) extension offer to McCullers? If so why did he not agree to it for until after a year later? You think Luhnow and not Click negotiated Lance's extension? Every player that was here for Luhnow that could have left is still here because Click and his organization chose to pursue him to stay or allow them to stay. Even Aledmys Diaz could have been non tendered last year when he hit his 3rd year of Arbitration because of injury history and growing salary. Click decided to offer him arbitration to stay with the Astros. Thats what GMs do- they decide who joins or stays on the team and Click has had 3 seasons to get rid of or let leave any players that he does not choose to be here Click chose ( because he is smart) to work to keep all of these former Luhnow guys when he could have chosen to move on and replace them with different players. And he is getting Zero credit for that.
