Arguing with the 'athletic' crowd is pointless. In their eyes, that is the single most important thing to succeed in basketball and if you don't have it, you are either worthless, or can take limited minutes at best. All the other skills are secondary and do not make up for any athletic shortcomings you have. Whereas the 'athletic' types have infinite potential because supposedly anything else can be taught. Even the GM's go with this reasoning, to pass on Luka for Bagley because Luka is slow, unathletic and can easily be defended by the athletic nba guards. The same type of reasoning that condescends Sengun's passes by describing them as 'cute', while thinking that KPJ averaging 6 assists is an indication of his great playmaking ability. Or dismissing the footwork, his effort on defense that leads to a lot of deflections, making the correct play at a very high rate(which KPJ severely lacks at a position that leads to an inefficient game, but who cares, he is athletic). The only reason we are having these huge threads with Sengun negativity is because KPJ had a good preseason game! and it is the right time to promote KPJ is a building block madness while Sengun had a bad one. Other than few posters who are crazy about this athleticism thing, everybody is positive on Sengun, aware of his defensive problems and that he needs to develop a shot, but also aware that he is 20, playing starter minutes for development, not for performing as an nba starting center out of the box, and needs to be used more on offense. Whether Sengun will be a fit with the rockets offense is a valid discussion, where I think the rockets desperately need a good pg or they will have to incorporate Sengun type big. Ideally they could do both. I am also not sure Silas is capable of creating an offense that uses Sengun effectively though.
Same guys probably liked some random leaper over Larry Bird and said Larry Bird would never amount to anything. I think the Rockets would be a much better team with TyTy or even someone like Tyus Jones (who just protects the ball) bringing up the ball as PG and then giving it to Sengun, compared to whatever KPJ does to get his stats.
This is not a KPJ vs Sengun argument - let's focus on just Sengun here. He is an elite passer, he has super high BBall IQ, he is a very good low post scorer with excellent moves, he is a high character teammate, just a very good developing player. The HOPE is that he becomes a starting NBA center or PF - and IMHO, in order to do that, he has to develop some. In Turkey and in the Euros he just played his normal low post game - nothing new - that will work in the NBA but it isn't enough to be a starter in the league, especially when you consider he fouls a lot - and a lot of his fouls are not smart, just reaching - when he should know to stay vertical. So for me, he doesn't have to get taller, or faster or more twitchy as an athlete, but he needs to up his skills game - he need a solid Midrange shot, he needs a solid 3pt shot, and he needs to stop reaching on D....he does those 3 things he will be fine. Comparing him to Jokic who already has those 3 things is silly....Sengun doesn't play like that and we don't need him to.....we need an occasional post up, some great passing from the elbow extended, a solid 3pt shot, (He will be wide open there)....and for him to stay vertical and stop reaching....last game 5 fouls in 17 minutes - and that is not the refs fault. I believe in Sengun, I like him a lot, but it is ok to talk about flaws - it doesn't hurt - we can disagree about how he is being used, but none of us can control that......AlP if he was in the post all the time would be more effective, but that is not going to be winning NBA basketball... DD
I don't want to be hard on KPJ, because he simply is not a pg. He is playing the wrong position. And this is hard to discuss as well, because kpj supporters think that I think like that because I do not understand that the game has evolved and the pg's are not the old pgs. I understand that concept but still kpj is a bad pg. On the other hand Ty Ty is too weak to develop with the first unit. He can't be part of the starting five. This is Rockets management's biggest mistake. The pg experiment also hinders the whole team development.
Then you are horrible at your job if you think Alpi is similar to Jabari in athletic ability. Jabari's lateral quickness for his size alone puts him in another class athletically than Sengun. Please stop trying to justify whether Alpi is good enough or not. Only time will tell. I'm not sold on any of our young players outside of Jalen (his improvement over the course of last year and this summer is evident). Everyone else we really need to see more. Maybe Alpi pans out, maybe he doesn't. The Rockets coaching staff ,who SOF's (Sengun Only Fans ) love to bash, think he's good enough to be the starter so I will roll with those who may know better and say that he's good enough. I just need... 1. For him to show more effort and be smarter defensively than he was in the last game. As long as he does that I believe that he'll be fine and develop into a solid NBA player. 2. SOF's to chill out thinking he's the greatest player to hit the NBA and that everyone who points out flaws in his game don't value him as a good player. He's good, but just like every other young player in the NBA his game has flaws that need to be worked on. It's not the coaches, his teammates, or the ref's that are his issue.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think KPJ is a very effective modern PG, especially with Green, you basically have 2 attacking Wing creators on the floor, and that makes us more dangerous IMHO - so if it makes you feel any better, because you want to pigeon hole a title into things. Our starting lineup is: SG SG SF PF PF DD
To start off, I agree with most of what you say. Most importantly he needs to develop a shot. Lazy fouls, also fair point. He is not a starter in this league yet, but we are developing him to be so. The low post is another story. I don't know about the others but I am not advocating for constantly posting him up. A smart coach can find ways to use his passing skills without posting him up. His ball handling is not good but he can play one on one with his man, because he has good footwork, can change directions, can finish with his off-hand(left). There is enough material here to work on to use him effectively, both as a passer and a scorer when he gets the ball at the top of the key. So the discussion is not let's post him all the time. And as a side note, the last game he was not even posted up, and quite a few times, the guards ignore him, only to get lost after passing up the opportunity. Your reaction to 5 fouls in a preseason game is taking things out of context. Just wait for 20-25 games and see how it goes. The second half of the season he really improved on that. And that's where the KPJ comparison comes in. You are very motivated to see KPJ improvement, even it is limited to very few games, but for Sengun it works the other way around.
My reaction to fouling is not based upon 1 game, that 1 game did magnify his existing foul issue though. He is foul prone, both in the NBA and in the Euros......he just reaches all the damned time.....he is undisciplined on that end....and it will hinder his minutes until he stops reaching. DD
I know. This is where we are on different pages. I do not see KPJ as a good creator, or a decision maker, which prevents me to put the ball in his hands as the. main ballhandler. It is not a matter of title. If he increases his efficiency and the rockets find a way of getting the creation and decision making part out of his hands, it can be a different story, but I find it hard to do and not very hopeful about it.
I didn’t say similar in all facets. Jabari is quicker laterally. But overall he’s not an explosive or elite athlete. Now, that lateral mobility is a huge plus at his size. And no need to get angry that you and others are wrong about Alp. It’s ok to accept your biases
Well I am not going to argue against him getting more efficient - same for KPJ he is still developing too, he has a grand total of 1 year at PG under his belt, he got a lot better in Assist to turnover ratio as the year went on, and I expect with better players shooting the ball, primarily Jabari it will get better still. DD
Also, in no way am I a SOF I’m just not a SOH (Sengun only hater) like some of the others here. I want all of our young guys to be successful, the truth is no one on this team has shown they can be a top 10 player in the league. It’s all projection. I care about truth when discussing players. Some of y’all overrate the hell out of some players and underrate others.
Well said, man! I guess I’m a little too critical at times, but it’s just some of these statements are just outrageous, like the Sengun and Jabari one. That’s when people lose me and I assume they’re just delusional when it comes to Sengun
Are you under the illusion Jabari is an elite athlete? He’s a good athlete but not elite, don’t get setup for disappointment
Not angry at all and didn't intend to come off that way. People get in their feelings regarding certain players and it's evidenced by your back and forth with some posters that criticizing Alpi may have triggered you into saying something that I think you know is not true. The simple eye test in the differences in how they move, their speed, and quickness (willing to be his vertical jump speed is faster too but hard to measure that with the eye) tells you that Jabari and Alpi are not similar athletically. You've made some great points regarding Alpi, you are just wrong on that one. Anyway carry on with the debate but mark me in the corner of he's good enough and willing to give him time to develop team.
Just look at is post all star numbers. He is clearly better on that end. The 5 fouls in a preseason game is just one data point, not a particularly valuable data point to tell the truth. It does not change the fact that he is improving on that area. Yes, he is undisciplined at times and he needs improvement and he is improving. And overall he is not an undisciplined player.
I never said elite athlete, but his lateral quickness at his size is definitely elite. The only elite athletes we have are Jalen and KJ. So you said he’s a good athlete, but him and Sengun are similar athletically? So you’re saying Sengun is a good athlete?! Wtf
That’s fair. Maybe the comp to Jabari is a stretch, but they both fall under the category of not beating you with sheer athleticism. Alp can’t match the lateral quickness on defense, the flip side of that can be said on offense. Jabari isn’t a gazelle that can jump out of the gym, he’s more Trevor Ariza type ability. Good all around. I wouldn’t say Alp is good all around but he’s above average in many athletic categories.
No, that isn’t what I’m saying. I’m saying their game isn’t based solely off athleticism. Jabari is a better athlete than Alp, but it’s not a huge discrepancy overall outside of defensive lateral quickness. Also, Green is the only elite athlete on this team and maybe Tari. KJ is an explosive leaper, but I wouldn’t call him an elite athlete.
He came off the bench last year partially to protect him from fouling - same thing in the Euros, he came off the bench and STILL managed to be in foul trouble. He needs to work on it, if he wants to play major minutes....... DD
