QB or NOT QB.....

No one will agree with you lol. Herbert is better than Lamar, end of discussion.

And no, Marinos season wasn’t close to Herbert

 

Chemistry is a thing. I agree. But Stroud has dealt with injuries to his preferred targets this year. JSN has been hurt dang near all year. Harrison Jr is a nice young player, but he wasnt a big part of the offense last season. Thats college football in tier 1 programs they ALL have a glut of awesome WRs and Alabama has had their fare share too and they just retool and keep going. Ultimately a good QB will throw to the open guys right? I have to assume that every wideout at Alabama was a highly touted recruit even if they arent household names. To use that as a positive for one and negative for the other is strange to me. The Heisman winner should be the catalyst for any passing success if he's a QB independently and wouldnt need to be in a perfect place with peripheral talent to continue that success IMO. Still too early to draw these lines in the sand I think so like I said lets see how these guys finish their seasons. Its cool to have a preference I dont begrudge you for that.

 

Very valid points

 

I think you're massively underselling Stroud's receivers. Last year he had at least three 1st round receivers that he was throwing to. This year, he probably has another 2. 3 if we count JSN who has missed some time. He also has a dominant offensive line. He rarely has to move off his spot much at all. It sucks because he does make high level throws, even though the majority of the time his receivers are pretty wide open, but it makes it difficult to assess how he would handle any type of adversity, because he simply doesn't have to.

We've seen Bryce play with his offensive line complete overmatched and less than reliable receivers and it was still pretty damn great. He also seems to have full control over changing plays based on coverage, or at least as much as Deshaun was given by O'brien since they have the same OC. At the very least since Metchie is already on the team, Caserio can pick his brain as well as O'brien's to come to a consensus on whether he's a possible franchise qb or not. I'm not against Stroud, I just think there are more questions with him, given his lack of great mobility and superior offensive talent.

Edit: I also wouldn't assume that receivers are going to be great because they were highly recruited. Watch the Texas game and you can see that Alabama's receivers struggle to get open, and its not like Texas has an amazing defense.

 

Thats fair I suppose. I still find it odd how much a program like Alabama is getting criticized for lacking talent in these conversations. Wasnt Evan Neal drafted in the top 10? I dont even think another OSU OL was taken in the 1st round. Now that in itself isnt some red flag because OL's work as units and I would agree that as a sum total OSU was a better OL than Alabama just in terms of sacks allowed but dang that would also need to be put under the microscope to see how many were results of coverage sacks and attributed to the QB and the player getting the ball out to the proper spot on time. This year Young has been sacked 5 times and Stroud 3 so far. Stroud hasnt had a consistent WR corp all year. He's just finding the open guys and delivering well placed balls taking advantage of the scheme they run. I would think you may agree that the running phase is equal at both programs which only helps QBs as well. OSU also has the harder strength of schedule this year among these teams and Stroud is still like 25 points higher in QB rating and top 5 nationally in QBR.

The Tide is not bereft of talent anywhere on that program lets be honest. Heck the Tide even had their very own 1st round WR drafted last season. Its just confusing how far down the rabbit hole guys need to go to make a point. Alabama year in and year out is at the very top of the recruiting rankings often ahead of OSU. Both of these programs are powerhouses.

How much do dominant defenses help each guy because Alabama is in a league of its own on that side of the ball if we want to start splitting atoms?

If you have concerns with Strouds mobility how is any better/different with Young? Neither guy is very mobile. If they are both going to be pocket passers I just feel that those extra 3-4" in height will become essential in the NFL.

I watched Young throw some head scratching INTS against teams that Alabama was superior to so it wasnt a talent issue on the flipside to your Texas game comment. If you are telling me that Young is a better pre snap read guy and from there he's shifting blocking assignments and audibling into more preferable plays I may have to disagree.

Bryce Young had a PHENOMENAL season last year and deserving of the Heisman, but CJ Strouds numbers were still better in terms of air yards, rating and all that playing 3 less games. It just seems like you guys are implying that any old QB could play for OSU and be successful it really isnt the case - that team also had Quinn Ewers in the fold who himself is a supreme talent and chose Stroud.

Scheme and coaching matter. Im not surprised WRs arent getting open in a Bill Obrien offense honestly and it has nothing to do with talent level. He's just not a good offensive mind IMO and probably cost that program a national championship with his bone headedness last year. I have applauded Young for being able to flourish in that system I think he's an awesome talent and would love to have him here if thats the way things work out and at no time have had to go to any extreme lengths to try and discredit what he does with any sort of qualifiers.

Sorry for the long windedness - working on my 3rd energy drink!

 

The TD in the Texas game where Young stepped up evading a rusher then scrambled to his left, flipped his hips and fired a td pass is something that Stroud physically can't do. Now he does do some things better than Young. He's more mobile than Mills for example and I think he generally displays better overall accuracy than Young.

The national championship game, Young was without his 2 top receivers. One went in the first round, and the other in the 2nd. The receivers that were there, dropped passes continually. Not sure where you see that we think any QB could do what Stroud is doing. Never said that. I only said that the level of talent around him is so high that it's hard to evaluate his ability to handle adversity.

Dominant defense helps you win games, but in terms of qb numbers, it's actually a benefit that Stroud is required to score alot. Scheme and coaching do matter, but the receivers that were deemed to be first round and 2nd round talent in John Metchie and Jamison had no issues getting open, so I don't think we should ignore raw talent levels. As for the offensive line, your line gets worse when guys are drafted. The fact that no one was drafted from OSU's line last year is a good thing, because either they weren't eligible yet, so they keep continuity or they chose to stay. Either way, when you evaluate them this year, they clearly have one of the most dominant offensive lines in college football.

Ultimately, I would be happy with Stroud and I think some of these questions will be answered throughout the rest of this year. OSU will face some tough opponents that should give their offensive line some issues and allow Stroud to show us how he handles pressure.

 

OSU lost both Petit-Frere and Thayer Munford from the OL last year just for reference.

Here are the notable games I have looked at a few times through to help me get where Im at today. Would love to go over any extra film you like and sift through situational football with each guy. They are both extremely talented and Im not sure that you can say you dont know how Stroud has handled pressure after watching the Notre Dame game?

edit: HUGE credit to Young for playing as well as he did vs the #1 defense in college football. Very impressive. Also CJ Stroud HAVING to play well right off the bat in game 1 vs a highly touted Notre Dame team should carry its own weight.

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/bryce-young-qb-alabama-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/cj-stroud-qb-ohio-state-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/

These two scouting reports are some of the best I've seen evaluating both of them and I really don't think we could go wrong in drafting either of them. I think people discount the Notre Dame game because it takes time for the community to realize how good a team is, so their defense probably wasn't given as much credit as it should have been. This is why I stress that we should let the year play out and be grateful that we'll be in a position to draft a potentially great qb unlike last year.

 

Drake Maye torched that same defense.

 

Drake Maye also had the benefit of already having seen their defense. He didn't have to play them in the first week.

 

It was a good game for him no doubt. Some gimme stuff in the red zone and one TD in garbage time, but I do like Maye as a prospect - great arm.

edit: is it okay of me to be wary of Drake because of Trubisky??

 

That’s fair. Maye will have 2 years and a lot better pedigree. Plus, Mayes arm talent is special

 

The flip side is also true, Notre Dame had time to scout Maye and a Tarheel team lacking the talent of Notre Dame

 

And Notre Dame won the game easily after starting off slow and lethargic just for levity. Maye and Co. should have tried to get out further in front before the UNC defense just collapsed in the 2nd-3rd quarters. Still impressive for Maye because that ND defense is legit.

 

And then, you get very, very lucky followed by very, very unlucky because it turns out he likes women to massage his private parts… seriously, being a Houston sports fan really sucks sometimes (most*)

 

That UNC team has one of the worst defenses in the country, I mean they’re bad. They also have nowhere near the talent on Offense that Ohio St does

 

Maye isn’t draft eligible, Levis will probably be gone. Jefferson has a shot to go in the first. Hooker and DJ are mid round picks