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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    On the flipside of what?

    You seemed to just be making statements that don't have any real meaning.

    Russia is to blame, who do you think should get the blame?

    Did things bet violent in 2008? The great depression or any other times in history when inflation was out of control and people's savings went to ****?

    You don't make any sense.
     
  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I don't know about that, I don't think anybody currently can step into Putin's footsteps and they most certainly would open up to prop up their gov and appease the people.

    Now for it becoming better, I don't know about that.

    I think most of the oligarchs want to be able to do business with the west.
     
    dobro1229 and Andre0087 like this.
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    lol, someone is upset
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    If Putin dies my guess is Russia will go into civil war. There will be hardliners who want to continue what Putin was doing but without the same amount of power that Putin had. There will be reformers who want Russia to change and become pro western. There might be generals who want to take power. In the meantime places like Dagestan that already have ethnic troubles start fighting again.
     
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  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Yeah it will not be pretty or easy but its going to hard for anybody to step into Putin's shoes, he has cultivated a lot of his power over many of years.
     
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  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    This is one of the biggest problems with an authoritarian state that is centered around an individual. Once that person is gone it is difficult to make a transition especially when there's no clear succession. The USSR when Stalin died had Kruschev waiting to keep it going. Medvedev would be the logical choice to replace Putin but I doubt he has the power to hold Russia like Putin did.
     
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  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Yeah I think you'd definitely see someone come in that is also a pure fascistic autocrat put in power by the Oligarchs as a usurper. BUT I don't think they'll look at the situation in Ukraine, the future with escalating BEYOND where Putin was in regards to nukes, and the riots on the streets, and say... "yeah lets go further in terms of threatening our countries survival and the survival of mankind in nuclear war."

    I think you'll see someone who is a classic lying corrupt Russian who just wants to make money in the end... and making money means getting the gas lines back up and running to Europe ASAP.... which means and peace deal with Ukraine.

    I do think that person will be talking tough, and trying to appease the right in Russia, but if Putin is replaced it'll be from both the military top command, and it'll be from the oligarchs who pay to have him taken out. Both of those two parties will absolutely want a way to get out of Ukraine and blame it all on Putin.

    In the end, the real power beyond Putin wants one thing, and one thing only.... MONEY. So I don't think Russia will necessarily be better off, but I don't think if Putin is removed from power that we'll see someone come in who is more dangerous for the world than Putin is. So at this point count me in as someone who would take my chances with whoever the Oligarchs want to replace him with. There's definitely a chance someone more dangerous finds their way in after him who they think will be controllable like the GOP thought Trump was, and it turns out worse in the end, but right now we're in a dangerous enough situation with Putin to take our chances with his replacement given the limited benefits for someone to go further than Putin has gone.
     
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  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I love you Dobro, but you are too ****ing dark.:D
     
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  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I don't think the danger of Putin dying is replaced by someone more authoritarian and more of a direct threat to the West. I think the danger is like in 1990 when Soviet Union fell apart and fighting broke out throughout the former USSR and within Russia itself. A post Putin Russia could break into more ethnic fighting in the caucauses with Dagestan and Chechnya splitting off and becoming failed states. Russia itself could economically collapse and with no clear leadership also slide into chaos. There coudl be problems about who controls the military including who controls Russia's WMD.
     
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  10. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    you let Obama off far too easily, and given Russian control of Crimea at the time, there's little Trump could have done to prevent Russian actions in the SoA, which is basically a Russian lake.

    and Biden's response to the invasion has been fine, as far as it goes, but it doesn't go far enough (I've posted my thoughts elsewhere in this thread), and Ukrainians are dying as a result.

    and it must never be forgotten that Biden gave Putin the green light to invade in the first place, underestimating both the Ukrainian's willingness to fight, and the West's ability to contain Russia.
     
  11. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Both of you deserve each other. Relish your bizarre view of the world. Embrace each other.
    Not interested.
     
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  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Is there any proof that the US blew up these pipelines?
     
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  14. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    I haven't expressed, or implied, any view on the pipeline explosion.

    and one must say, I'm surprised to learn you're a fan of the federalist.
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    When Russia falls the US and NATO should reach out to help them rebuild their government - and have clear goals in mind for them to become a part of NATO.

    Give them a roadmap towards a peaceful Euro existence.....and make sure their people get power in a proper vote.

    DD
     
  16. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    That's not direct proof. Plus the US has many other tools to stop the NordStream 2 pipeline including what the spokesperson said workign with Germany. Germany could just turn it off.
     
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  18. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    I can't be bothered to find it right now, but there's a relevant Biden quote as well, where he says the US has the capability to ensure NS2 ceases to function, independently of German action.
     
  19. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    here it is:

     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    According to some other sources Russia might be the one behind the attacks.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nord-stream-2-leaks-into-baltic-sea-36ttlwhkq
    Russia accused of Nord Stream sabotage over gas leaks in Baltic Sea
    That pretty much validates my post. Why would the US bomb the pipelines if they could work with Germany to turn it off. The German Chancellor is agreeing with Biden that they would work together if that was the case.
     
    Deckard likes this.

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