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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Indifferent, it’s all the same, what about over there, just partisan politics, …

     
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  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Yes Trump is a lot like Hitler, he is a racist, someone who points fingers trying to divide folks, blames others for his own faults and tries to rule through fear.....

    DD
     
  3. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Yeah that's what Hitler is known for, not starting WWii and massacuring millions of people, both of what Trump is known for
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    It is exactly what Hitler was known for before he started WW2......maybe you should be looking at that, there are a lot of similarities.

    DD
     
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  5. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I'm still skeptical nuclear can handle all of our intermediate demands. I'm not opposed to it but I don't think I can accept having a plant in my backyard either.

    I know the financial media + fintwit crowd is gung ho for implicitly pouring in billions of government backed subsidies to foot the upfront capital costs for nuclear plants, but there are still legit concerns for dealing with million year waste and mining an extremely limited uranium supply (200 years for current usage rates) is as b****-worthy (it's really more) as the environmental b****ing for digging up rare earths. The latter argument irks me as cherry picking by pro nuclear folks.

    I haven't seen the latest research about plant longevity as some recent and rosy projections claim a Max life cycle of 60-80 years but they were originally slated for 40 years of peak operation because the radiation seeps through the core and into the underlying infrastructure itself.

    Then there's a decade plus decommissioning effort of cooling down the rods and dismantling/containing aforementioned irradiated parts. None of these have any semblance of a responsible and safe way to send back into the Earth for the duration of it's entire decay cycle. For the rods, they can last up to a million years.

    I am hopeful breeder reactors can resolve this but there are plenty of cons such as current viability (still experimental), safety, and proliferation. France is reputed to be cutting edge but has France built any new models we can copy off of? Why not...That is presumably a competitive advantage. Bill Gates wanted to build a new experimental reactor in China till Trump or any other president killed that idea.

    So nuclear sounds reasonable on the surface, as did solar and wind, but the billion dollar questions are by how many, how much and who foots the final costs?
     
    #8985 Invisible Fan, Sep 25, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
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  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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  7. basso

    basso Member
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  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    He didn't say "dictator". He said "wannabe dictators".

    Putin started as a democratic populist strongman. After years of rigging the elections, he's essentially an autocrat. With the war, he is now ruling Russia as a dictator. Some saw this coming, and some didn't. All guess games early on. But the risk was always there and was ever increasing. Too many people didn't stand up to him and too many accepted autocratic behaviors.

    The focus on Trump is not that he's a Hitler or even a wannabe dictator (he's too weak to be one), but that the system has bucketed already under him and the path toward anti-democracy is moving forward. A real democratic populist strongman is much more likely now to do serious damage.

    I think you have always rejected this type of risk, starting with rejecting that Trump is a risk to democracy (early on, which is quite understandable at that time) and downplaying the warnings and posts here about Trump not likely to accept the election result. That initial assessment was wrong and you are continuing to downplay the risk.

    ps. A bunch of former Republicans and RINOs didn't go completely anti-today-Republican because of partisan politics. It's because they fully recognize and understand the risk.
     
    #8988 Amiga, Sep 25, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
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  9. basso

    basso Member
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  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    He is not a wanna be dictator either. He is like any other politician who bends the rules to get his way. Yes I fully acknowledge he bends a hell of a lot harder than most. This country is not going to let some obese geriatric come flying down from heaven and magically convince the population to ignore constitutional law. This rhetoric is stupid.

    I dont agree with Putin invading Ukraine. Russia is not our country. Contrary to popular belief and actions, we do not have the moral authority to go around replacing governments because they do not play by our rules. There are several countries with authoritarian regimes that his country has no problems with.

    I have stated multiple times that Trump is very bad for this country. Its not because I believe he has authoritarian desires but his endless motives of dividing everyone at every turn. This is not limited to Trump although he is certainly at the top of the list. Hillary was just as guilty. Liberals love to keep bringing up Trump trying to delegitimize the election but Hillary has done the same thing countless times. Liberals then love to dismiss this by saying Hillary was never President, but the fact remains she was in the general election and continued to campaign after that Trump was illegitimate, just like Trump is no longer president and does the same to Biden. The problem is not Trump or Hillary. The problem is that neither of these two candidates should have been in the GE in the first place but yet we continue to push the worst candidates into the GE. It bothers me our country was forced to pick between two of the shittiest candidates in my life time and both sides continue to push the 'lesser of two evils' narrative.
     
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  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I agree with a lot of it and good post.

    Many look at nuclear as a panacea and / or also use it as a rhetorical cudgel against those in the environmental movement. Nuclear certainly can help climate change but it's got it's drawbacks and capital investment and lifetime costs are huge issues.

    My own view is we need multiple and distrbuted power generation. Relying upon big centralized power generation whether it's coal or nuclear isn't the solution.
     
  12. basso

    basso Member
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    Biden himself said he did not accept the results of the 2016 election.
     
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    It's not that important but he's pretty clearly a wanna-be dictator. No other president has ever not accepted an election result. He regularly praised autocrats and dictators.

    You are missing my point. As I said, Trump isn't it. He's too disorganized and too weak to become an autocrat. It's what's next.

    Hillary conceded the presidential election to Trump on the night of the election. Whatever she said since hasn't impacted the Democratic party to become more anti-democratic. Trump has impacted the Republican party to become more anti-democratic.

    The Democratic party is not on any pathway to not accepting the results of future elections while the Republican party has multiple members that refused to say so. Hours after Jan 6, 147 Republicans voted to overturn the election results. 90%+ of them still refused to state that Trump didn't lose the election because of fraud. The Republican party has passed election laws in multiple states based on their own known false premise that the "election was stolen" (Trump's Big Lie) to essentially make it harder to vote and make it easier to overturn results by those in power. Republican lawmakers filed a lawsuit to give state legislator power to determine election laws without any checks from the state constitutions or state courts. House Republicans endorse this Independent State Legislator doctrine (which essentially allow state legislator to take power away form voters).
     
  14. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Liberals up next
     
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  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Actually the USA can't go isolationist, every time we ignore world events and say, well that is Europe's problem we get drawn into a larger global conflict.

    The USA is doing 100% the right thing to support Ukraine and weaken Russia....

    DD
     
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  17. basso

    basso Member
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  18. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    this is a pretty good post, except for the suggestion that there is some level of equivalence between what the Republican Party has done under and since Trumo, and anything that Hillary or Biden has done. I do appreciate the honesty about Trump and noting he is on top of the list of miscreants. But then in the next breath, you say Hilary was just a guilty.

    I am no Hilary apologist at all, she is one of the worst in my lifetime, but there is a vast difference between Trumps actions and anyone in the history of this country. Everyone else before operated within democratic norms. Trump went to dramatically greater lengths across the board.

    Again, your post is much more honest than 99 percent of the “both sides” equivalence that morons like Salvy, raining threes, Commodore, Roxran and suragothops spew on a daily basis. So I do want to give credit.

    For those other dudes, it would be so much more honest if they said I know Trump is a wannabe dictator piece of crap, but I don’t care because he is our piece of crap and I I like how he insults libs and lives to try to own them at every pass.
     
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  19. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    So this is significant how? How is this similar in any way why Trump did and has done. Did Biden say the election was stolen. Did he lie about Dominion voting machines? Did he convince a bunch of morons that mail in ballots were inherently fraudulent? Please, pray tell why anyone should care that Biden didn’t like the results of 2016.

    I know you don’t have a point except to play the whataboutism card. Just understand that it only works in the right wing echo chambers of stupidity. People here actually care about facts.
     
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  20. basso

    basso Member
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