16ppg as a 6th man off the bench is NOT all star level - I don't hate anyone - I just have no problem comparing apples to apples, seems others have a difficult time understanding that Harden at 22, and KPJ at 22 were really close in what they are doing on the court.....all things considered. I would say Harden because of his efficiency was better on offense, and KPJ because he is a better defender is better on defense.... Now, I am NOT saying KPJ will have that same trajectory, but I am also not saying he won't.... OKC didn't believe Harden was a MAX player, and tried to lowball him and it blew up their chance at a ring..... DD
Only if you never watched a single game of OKC Harden or KPJ would you in a million years state that without being sarcastic or insane. Anyone who watched him play knew he was going to be at the very least good. Sure, people didn't know he would be historically great, but people knew he was a future all-star. That was why Morey was willing to sell the farm for Harden. Also, since you are bringing up context and stuff, Harden played a 6th man role behind Durant and WB. KPJ was the lead man on our squad last season.
Oh ya i forgot you're incapable of looking at anything beyond PPG, my bad. You're right, KPJ is as good as 3rd season james harden! Future mvp
I would accuse you have either never watching the game or being blind if you thought KPJ was actually comparable in terms of playmaking. Then again, you had also thought that AB was a good PG and better than Lowry at the time, so go figure. Harden got TOs because he WAS our offense. That was why we didn't have too many TEAM TOs. KPJ's vision is not even in the same continent as Harden's. Harden completely eclipsed him. It's a big part of why KPJ is such an inefficient scorer.
Please try to stop comparing Harden's time in Houston - this is about when James was 22 and in OKC. This is 100% about both of them at the same stage in their careers - Harden before we signed him was coming off his 3rd year in the league - same as KPJ - their stats at that point in their careers are VERY comparable. The point was that people overlook how good KPJ is because of his attitude issues - and yes his efficiency needs work, as soon as he stops avoiding contact and starts exploding through it those numbers will dramatically increase. I get that some are going to say....."DD's crazy man"......but that's ok....I think KPJ is ready to explode and do big things in the NBA.....at least I hope so....and seeing that his numbers somewhat compare to Harden's before he took off is quite cool. Thank you for your invaluable input and your super solid take - with facts like that how can anyone even discuss it ??? I respect you disagree though....that's ok. DD
I forgot to do the same in my last reply, but I have been saying "OKC Harden" in every previous reply. Harden has always had great vision even in his OKC days. KPJ has shown time after time that he has difficulties getting past his first read.
this is why some people really have no business talking numbers… Zach Lavine a season ago: 27, 5, and 5 James Harden in 14-15: 27, 6, and 7 hmmm, looks like Zach Lavine and Harden were pretty similar level players…that is a KPJ superfan’s logic
Similar Assists to turnover ratios though....I think KPJs is actually slightly better...but nominal at best. I can respect your take though that Harden was way better in OKC than KPJ was last year - I think they are close.....but it's cool. DD
Now I’m with @DaDakota …. If we have people saying Sengun can be better than Luka, Jokic, and bird, then why can’t we compare KPJ to 2011/2012 harden! F it!
Which is why it is so often that people call box scores garbage. The box score was made because people are dumb as hell and can only understand stats when they are dumbed down to the point where they lose virtually all meaning. WB is a great example of this. He usually has as many dimes as Harden if not more. Do you think he is a comparable playmaker? Jokic has less dimes and comparable TO ratio. Is he a worse playmaker than WB? This is why you WATCH games, not read box scores.
your 1st claim that we traded for and gave Harden a deal while basically not knowing much about him is a flat out lie Morey already thought he was an All-Star level player at the time of the trade. That is a fact. That is why he was so aggressive in acquiring him and why he immediately gave him a max extension. U can not dispute any of that u claiming that KPJr and 11-12 Harden are comparable players is elementary level box score watching…Are 20-21 Zach Lavine and 14-15 Harden comparable level players because their basic box score stats are similar? They are according to your type of logic… 11-12 Harden’s advanced stats completely blow KPJr’s out the water, and even looking at them on the court and just watching them play, it is not close court vision, BBIQ, shooting, ability to get to the line, efficiency…last year’s KPJr can’t hold 11-12 Harden’s jockstrap if 11-12 Harden was on last year’s Rockets, he is not averaging a measly 15, 4, and 6 on 53% TS while leading us to the worst record in the league because they are not the same class of player
What’s the difference between comparing jokic and shengun and kpj vs harden? Same idiocy. If something can be unconscionably stupid, you better believe someone will have that view
Dude, rookie year harden was a far better player then any kpj season if you want to be objective about it
You're a KPJ fan boy so no surprise. I haven't seen that regarding Sengun in comparison. You guys are literally insane
