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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    An interesting article from the BBC about the weapons sent by the UK to Ukraine from the beginning of the invasion by Russia to the present day. The equipment sent by the US has gotten the most publicity, which is unsurprising as it's been in huge quantities and very effective, but the UK, while sending smaller amounts, has also sent weapons and equipment that have had a big impact on causing the Russian military a great deal of grief.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61482305
     
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  2. basso

    basso Member
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    and they want more, because this thing is a long way from over:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukrain...ve-against-russia-11662998386?mod=djem10point

    Ukraine has signaled that it will make major new requests to carry out a long-term offensive against Russia.

    A document shared with U.S. lawmakers and viewed by the WSJ lists dozens of types of armaments Kyiv says it will need to press its offensive into 2023, including a long-range missile system Washington has declined to provide. The request follows the publication of a strategy statement in which two senior Ukrainian military officers argue that a turning point in the war could come if the Ukrainians had longer-range systems.
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I think the assessment has to be whether or not Ukraine's safety will be on-going like Israel's is. Without the religious component I'm inclined to think that long term there really should be no reason for Ukraine to be under threat from being invaded, but I think there does need to be a serious assessment about what level of investment is made based on the long term threats.

    And of course there's no such thing as a free lunch. What is the EU, NATO, and the US getting for propping up a powerful military? Because even with Israel we can certainly still ask that question.

    It's too early to tell, but IMO really the tradeoff needs to be a guarantee that Ukraine will remain a democracy long term, and won't be a risk in the future for being taken over by a corrupt autocratic regime. Long range missile systems would be crucial though for protecting the East from invasion in the future though. Just imagine convoys coming in like we saw prior. Instead of taking weeks to mobilize ground forces you could stop it dead in it's tracks. I understand it completely from Ukraine's perspective. It also could be key in breaking the lines in south east Ukraine. It's going to be a slog these next few months I'm sure, and it could end the war quickly.

    But the EU, NATO, and the US need to think long and hard about assessing long term military infrastructure put in place that in the future could belong to an autocrat. Knowing Ukrainians myself, and seeing how hard THE PEOPLE are fighting for independence and freedom now speaks volumes though. This is not a country of people who strike me not being up to the task of self governance, and democracy.
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    I haven't been posting any of the gruesome civilian grave photo I've come across. Believe me, this isn't the first. Lots of mutulated civilian corpses shot in the head getting dug out of shallow graves in Ukraine the last couple of days.
     
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  6. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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  7. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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  8. basso

    basso Member
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  9. basso

    basso Member
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    has anyone seen info on the *size* of the forces conducting these offensives? how many men, etc?
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    They need to roll into Russia - just a little bit - right now they are only fighting for their own territory - rolling into Russia will cause a major shift when Russian people themselves start seeing missiles fly.

    DD
     
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  11. Invisible Fan

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    Trump's useless without His Precious Boxes marked CLASSIFIED.
     
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  12. Space Ghost

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    Great way to sway the Russian people to be pro-Putin. Nothing unifies better than having NATO weapons slamming into your home.
     
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  13. Two Sandwiches

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    Do these people still consider themselves Ukrainian? Maybe they'll enlist for the other side. Wonder if Russia is overstepping here. Civil upheaval incoming.
     
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  14. Two Sandwiches

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    Exactly. As much as I'd love to see the Ukrainian army knocking on Putin's door and treating him like Gaddafi, it's not smart.
     
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  15. Major

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    Yeah, this is the opposite of what they need to do. Ukraine has had one good week - but captured a tiny fraction of the territory they've lost. Invading Russia would be making the same mistake of arrogance that Russia has made with Ukraine. Russian soldiers have zero interest in conquering Ukraine, but you can be sure they'll rally to defend Russia.
     
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  16. Major

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    Weird that it starts the 19th. That gives all the eligible citizens 6 days to get the hell out.
     
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  17. Invisible Fan

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    Don't fret, it's just the tip.
     
  18. Invisible Fan

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    Is that the Russian definition of a volunteer army?

    Conscript...what do you mean...we informed them well in advance!
     
  19. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    [AP] Ukraine military claims downing Iran drone used by Russia

    upload_2022-9-13_13-16-5.png

    KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine’s military claimed Tuesday for the first time that it encountered an Iranian-supplied suicide drone used by Russia on the battlefield, showing the deepening ties between Moscow and Tehran as the Islamic Republic’s tattered nuclear deal with world powers hangs in the balance.

    U.S. intelligence publicly warned back in July that Tehran planned to send hundreds of the bomb-carrying drones to Russia to aid its war on Ukraine. While Iran initially denied it, the head of its paramilitary Revolutionary Guard has boasted in recent days about arming the world’s top powers.

    The Ukrainian military’s Strategic Communications Directorate published images of the wreckage of the drone. It resembled a triangle, or delta-shaped, drone flown by Iran known as the Shahed, or “Witness” in Farsi.

    The military official and the website both said Ukrainian troops encountered the drone near Kupiansk amid Kyiv’s offensive that has punched through Russian lines around Kharkiv on the eastern front.

    The image suggested the Shahed drone had been shot down by Ukrainian forces and hadn’t detonated on impact as designed, though little other information was immediately released by Kyiv. An inscription on the drone identified it as an “M214 Gran-2,” which didn’t immediately correspond to known Russian weaponry.


    Iran’s mission to the United Nations did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    Iran has multiple version of the Shahed, which have overflown a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf, been used by Iranian-backed rebels in Yemen, attacked oil depots in Saudi Arabia and allegedly killed two sailors aboard an oil tanker off Oman in 2021. The triangle-shaped Shahed is believed to have a range of around 2,000 kilometers (1,240 miles), though Iran has offered few details.

    Experts refer to such bomb-carrying drones as “loitering munitions.” The drone flies to a destination, likely programmed before its flight, and either explodes in the air over the target or on impact against it.

    Iran has drawn closer to Russia as it faces crushing sanctions over the collapse of the nuclear deal in 2018 after then-President Donald Trump unilaterally withdrew from the accord. Negotiations over the deal, which saw Iran limit its enrichment of uranium in exchange for sanctions being lifted, again appear deadlocked.

    Ukraine and Iran also have tense relations, stemming from Iran’s Revolutionary Guard shooting down a Ukrainian passenger jet in 2020, killing all 176 people on board.
     
  20. adoo

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    From the Moscow Times


    Russian City Deputies Petition for Putin Resignation


    The petition comes as the Ukrainian military pursues a counteroffensive, quickly reclaiming territory and pushing Russian troops back to the northeastern border in some places.

    The push’s initial gains have provoked some criticisms of Putin inside the country, a rare rebuke of Russia’s longtime leader who over the years has sought to stifle opposition.
     
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