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Updated 5 year outlook

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snake Diggit, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    Why would you want to replace Aledmys with Yuli? Diaz is outhitting, outslugging, and getting on base more often than Yuli this season. And he's seven years younger. Yuli is washed. He's 38. Move on.
     
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  2. Marshall Bryant

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    Aledmys is not under contract next year. If he gets an offer to play a position full time, he's gone.
     
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  3. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Dubon is a well-above average defender everywhere except catcher. He strikes out less than 20% of the time. And he is not completely void of power; he has 17 HR in 701 MLB pa (slightly more than a full seasons worth). He isn’t a star and he’s not someone a contender wants as an everyday player, but he has a lot of value in his current role, especially while he’s still earning the league minimum.
     
  4. torque

    torque Member
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    Have to wonder if the new shift rules will affect the Astros' negotiations with their young pitchers. Heavy groundball guys like Framber and Lance may be negatively affected. Heavy strikeout pitchers will be even more valued than before, so someone like Javier likely becomes more valuable with the rule changes.
     
  5. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    Dubon sucks. If he can play 7 positions so nobody else has to as a break glass in the case of emergency then that allows you to do other stuff in other places. We could dfa him to and I wouldn’t lose sleep. As the 26th man on roster during the regular season he’s fine. Should not be there for playoffs. If he gets 100 AB’s then he’s fine. He’s just playing too much.
     
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  6. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Member

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    Kinda surprised that people still haven't realized/appreciated the emphasis that the Astros put on the defensive/non-hitting side of the ball. In almost every situation they'll play the better defender over the better bat:
    -Maldy at catcher
    -Yuli at first
    -Meyers/Siri in CF instead of Chazzy Fizz or Tucker.
    -Not playing Mancini in LF more.

    By Fangraphs defensive fWAR, the club has ranked:
    2017: 6th
    2018: 2nd
    2019: 6th
    2020: 20th
    2021: 3rd
    2022: 3rd

    That team defensive collectively allows the pitching staff to play way up.

    I think the FO has figured out a strong defense masks a relatively weaker offense than prior seasons.

    The Astros average wRC+ by season:
    2017: 121
    2018: 110
    2019: 124
    2020: 97
    2021: 114
    2022: 111

    Dubon is an average or better defender at SS/2B/CF/RF by defensive metrics. That's crazy helpful. I'm not saying he's some invaluable player cuz he's not, but the amount of playing time he's getting is absolutely part of a concerted strategy. He'll be on the team until his glove stops being a plus.
     
  7. Qan

    Qan Member

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    I find it funny people think Christian Vazquez is not a defensive catcher...news flash...he's been known for his defense, and one of the better defensive catcher in the game. Be real, he can defend, call pitches, and HIT. Only reason Vazquez isn't starting is because Maldy has been here the longest and pitchers "like" him more (more use to him).

    If Maldy was not here and Vazquez was full time starter...I bet the Astros won't miss a beat defensively from the catchers position, but will definitely gain when it comes to batting.

    Wish Astros kept Siri and traded Chas instead, so it'll decrease the chance of Dubon playing. Siri and Dubon both sucks at the plate, but atleast Siri is a much better CF.
     
    #427 Qan, Sep 8, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
  8. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    I don’t think that’s true. They traded Straw and SIRI and kept Meyers and Chas. Both the better defensive guys left and they kept the ones they hoped would perform on offense.
    Yuli and Maldy both had the FO trade guys to replace them and Dusty hasn’t done that. I don’t think it’s a FO thing I think it’s a Dusty thing.
    also, note the deterioration of the offensive stats since Dusty showed up. I really think it’s him making those decisions. I bet, when we move on from him, you will see soon the stuff people complain incessantly about with him immediately disappear and all the logic pretzels people made themselves into will be pretty clearly Dusty Baker managerial decisions.
     
  9. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I agree that Dusty prefers defense at certain positions more than the front office as the FO likely weights the value of hitting and fielding closer to actual value than Dusty. The front office likes defense because they can get defensive value cheaper than offensive at certain positions. On Dusty, I don't think he's the best at evaluating who the better defender is/will be (i.e., he makes a judgement on a player and it takes an act of Congress to get him to adjust his thoughts).

    On CF defense, Siri's defense has come back to Earth in Tampa as expected (at same time he's hitting though) and there isn't a huge difference between Chas, Meyers (when he was healthy), and Siri (i.e., isn't big enough to make decision based on defense instead of offense).

    I think team preferred Meyers overall when healthy, and he did look good last season. I think team expects Chas to regress some, an thought of him as a 4th OF. Choosing the likely best two hitters among 4 good to great defensive OFs should not be viewed as the Astros FO not liking defense.
     
    #429 Joe Joe, Sep 9, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
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  10. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Member

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    Call it logic pretzels but its not crazy to see logic at the time.

    Straw: got a solid return on him. had Siri/Chas/Meyers behind who could provide similar value
    Siri: I think Dusty would have played him every day over Chas but the FO didn't want his bat in the line-up. This one I'm not arguing that Dusty preferred his glove in the lineup. His bat was just that bad.

    For Maldy: I assume that all the pitchers would prefer to keep Maldy as their battery mate. He's been with them for years and he's highly respected.

    Basically i think we agree there is some non-offensive skills based roster decisions being made, I just don't think its entirely illogical. There's defensive, personal preference, team cohesion considerations at play. i 100% don't believe the best lineup for the team is the best offensive option at every position every game.
     
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  11. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    Interesting comment. On the hitting side, I would think Alvarez and Tucker are going to see their OBP explode. They both hit a ton of line drives that are now being defeated by the shift. We need to sign Tucker to that extension before next season. I still think Framber and McCullers will be TOR pitchers, but your strikeout comment is solid.
     
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  12. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

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    The logic pretzel **** that Dusty does meaning hitting Goodrum and Dubon at the top
    If the lineup. Sitting Chas against LHP starters and bringing him in to Ph against RHP- **** like that.
    Other than that pretty much agree.
     
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  13. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    3rd and 9th in balls in play with LA <10 pulled into the shift among LHBs.

    Corey Seager...OMG does he love grounding out to 2nd base. I thought he just did that for special occasions.
     
  14. toby

    toby Member

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    I hope we aren’t negotiating with Lance any time soon. I’m a little worried about the shift as Altuve ages. It will also, I’d think, necessitate a little more active 1st baseman (more than just a scoop expert). Long term, I think you’ll start to see agility at the corners being thought of differently. Can’t park your 250 lb hammer at first and the bulky third basemen will start to be a defensive liability.
     
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  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Seattle CBA payroll next 4 years (not counting club controlled players)
    $127
    $116
    $100
    $94

    Astros
    $124
    $115
    $58
    $58

    FanGraphs Farm SV $
    Hou $85
    Sea $57

    So Houston has more MLB talent (even per Servais), more revenue, less budget allocated over next 4 years, and a better farm than Seattle.

    Considering that the AL wild cards will likely be more contested next year and Seattle going all-in on this team, there is a decent chance the high point of this Mariners squad may be getting swept in the ALDS.
     
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  16. Nick

    Nick Member

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    So basically the Astros have a very good chance of outlasting all most recent waves of AL west competitors and their home-grown cores…. First it was the A’s, now likely the Mariners who have gone all-in. The Rangers went all-in last year? Despite not having other pieces ready to go… so they’re a mess. The Angels will continue to be a mess.

    Granted, the Astros didn’t need any help from their competition to sustain their success… but its almost as if teams really trying to chase them have actually become dumber in that process.
     
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  17. Buck Turgidson

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    What's your 5 game outlook?
     
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  18. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    You still complaining about the whole 3 games Goodrum started batting 2nd or 3rd (one of them the second game of the season)?
     
  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I'd say there is a good chance the Astros outlast the current cores of the other teams. Prior to the Yordan extension, I thought Mariners were poised to be the next best AL West team (i.e., not needing injuries/ short season to win AL West), but Yordan extension and Seattle cashing in assets (prospects and budget) early really changed that. They really need their young players to get better and their older players not to age as they just don't appear to have much flexibility to improve the roster. I'd say Rangers weakened themselves by jumping the gun, but I'd say they haven't gone all-in (i.e., they have prospects and more revenue). Angels, they almost have to rebuild this offseason (i.e., trade Ohtani).

    From a long term standpoint, the Mariners and Rangers moves the past 2 years have made the road easier in long term for the Astros by making the division slightly harder to win in the short term.

    On short term forecast for Buck, the Astros will win 8 more games this postseason. Altuve will win World Series MVP to complete his collection of awards. There will be much gnashing of teeth by media and the other 29 fanbases.
     
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  20. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    People underestimate just how hard it is to combine acquiring elite top end talent with the kind of depth Houston has consistently produced.

    The trio of unheralded cheap controllable quality SP (Garcia, Javier, Framber) combined with the Alvarez extension and emergency of Pena extended the window essentially double the length of the original core. 5+ years after the original group (Altuve, Bregman, Springer, Correa, McCullers) reaches (or would’ve reached) free agency, this team still projects to win 95+ games. In fact, the next 2 seasons easily have the potential for Houston to produce their 2 most talented teams ever, if luck goes their way.
     
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