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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Why are Nazis bad?
     
  2. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    US MRAPs (MaxxPros) lined up for delivery to Ukraine. (MRAP stands for Mine Resistant Ambush Protected. The are designed with bottom armor, elevated height, and a special shape so that the occupants are protected if the run over a landmine. I want so sat they budgeted for 40 of these to Ukraine, so I'm guessing this is the full shipment, probably lined up just over the border from Poland or something.



    These are probably "on the books" as some multi-million/billion dollar line item for aid to Ukraine, but these are surplus from Afghanistan and I've talked to guys who were in Afghanistan who said in many cases we were leaving them behind for the Taliban to salvage or rebuild. (Found an article that says we left behind 70 units for the Taliban, IIRC the Taliban has a better night vision capability than the Russian Army does at this point, apparently we left behind several hundred thousand sets of current Gen night vision goggles).

    Much happier that Ukranians have them instead of the Taliban, even if it costs a few extra bucks to ship them and pay to re-paint them. (Obviously desert tan doesn't work for Ukraine).

    So a bunch of the ridiculous numbers in terms of bottom line dollars for aid to Ukraine is basically sunk cost for stuff that is quite literally surplus to our needs, and would get salvaged, abandoned, surplused, or parked in a long-term storage depot and left to rot.

    Similar would be the 1,000 M113s we pulled out of storage, rebuilt, and sent to Ukraine. If they weren't going to Ukraine. They'd be decomposing in the sun and weather somewhere like Fort Bragg in the scrub in West Texas.

    Of course, things like the HIMARS or the Javelins are part of first line US military units and must be replaced, so those costs are actual replacement costs, but a lot of stuff, like these MaxxPros are basically surplus for what the US military needs or wants right now. The costs reflect sunk procurement costs, but don't accurately reflect any significant real-world additional expendatures.
     
    #8562 Ottomaton, Sep 5, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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  4. basso

    basso Member
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    unlike you, I didn't have to consult an encyclopedia to know who the nazis were.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Yeah this is a move that could really hurt Russia more than it does the rest of the World. Fighting a war is expensive if they aren’t going to sell gas I don’t see where they are getting the money to sustain the war effort.
     
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  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The Russians do not care. Because of their long history, life and quality of life is not as important as it is in other parts of Europe and North America and other parts of the world. Russia can and will take chances that others will not. There is almost zero consequence to Putin and Russia.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I agree with you, but if you go back and look at WWII, WWI, the Gulf War and other wars.... the reality is that the reporting has not been entirely accurate. The closest to accuracy was Vietnam, and even then there were things not reported. I have wondered about why this is. Part of it has been that historically the only way the media gets information is from the military, and that results in pressure to either report what the military wants reported or the military only releases the information that it wants.

    I know for example, during the First Gulf War that the media was dependent on the military and as a result the information was inaccurate.

    Typically the military doesn't directly lie, but relies on omissions. They simply do not provide information on things it does not want the press to know. They do this so at a later time they are not accused of lying.

    Also I think the military and politicians learned how important the narrative is from the reporting in Vietnam and it tries to prevent that from happening.

    The US government isn't a single entity all on the same page, so eventually more information will emerge, but it takes time.
     
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  8. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Fact: Russia is buying military arms from N Korea.

    Assumptions: Russia is doing so terrible they can not keep up with military arms and are relying on countries who have faced the strongest sanctions globally (This makes absolutely no sense).

    Likely: N Korea needs energy and Russia is willing to trade with anyone, even if they are buying 'janky' military arms, which are likely at a discount. NATO has placed sanctions on Russia and idiots are completely surprised Russia is now engaging in trade with all the global malcontents.
     
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  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Hey look! Someone that has spouted many THOUSANDS of opinions, often contrary to their own opinions in the past....... said something in the past that has proven to be relevant and true in the current situation!

    Am I to conclude that Trump is some sort of wise sage that sees things before the rest of the world does? If that is so, there are many thousands of things that Trump has said that I think need to be discussed, that have proven to be objectively false or lies. We can even restrict it to a subject if necessary.

    The reality is that if you offer enough opinions, even opinions that are counter the majority opinions, eventually by the law of probability you are going to be right.

    We can do this with any historical figure or prognosticator or even charlatan.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I don't think that anyone is shocked that Russia is trading oil to North Korea. I also don't think that anyone is shocked that North Korea is sending back arms.
     
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  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Gazprom taunting Germany, Russian lyrics all about hard winter:

     
  12. Buck Turgidson

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  13. basso

    basso Member
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  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Counterpoint: most @basso posts show a remarkable ability to be consistently wrong, far more than a random walk would ever generate
     
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  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Not to get in a pissing contest, but world leaders do have much more insight than the average news media armchair quarterback on reddit, twitter or whatever their favorite BBS.

    Of course Trump had no respect for anything and routinely wove truth and lies together. I dont consider Trump as some wise sage for publicly exposing what every other leader knew. He simply didnt care who he pissed off.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    LOL - My grandfather was on Omaha beach I know very well what they are - I am just backing up my thoughts with FACTS in case you didn't.....I mean lazy one liners and all....is sort of your parties thing.

    DD
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes, world leaders do have more information and insight than me or anyone else. Most choose to listen to it and value it. Unfortunately a very select few do not.

    unfortunately, his belief ….. that Obama was born in Kenya, that windmills cause cancer, that Clinton had over 50 political rivals killed, that Seth Rich and Vince Foster were murdered, that Rafael Cruz was involved in the JFK murder, that Obama staged the death of Bin-Laden, that Joe Scarborough murdered an assistant, that the election was stolen and that Ukraine was the one interfering in the election…. Make it very clear that Trump doesn’t have a real grasp on reality or plays the part of being someone that isn’t properly informed.
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
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    and my father lived under occupation for five years.
     
  19. adoo

    adoo Member

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