The craziest story I heard about Ron Artest was getting on the team bus in his undies in front of Les. Did he do anything that KPJ did when he was wearing Rockets red?
So your idea of not "barely anything" is basically criminal assault... got it. Geographically bailing on your team during a game, no big deal! We now know exactly where you stand for standards of behavior.
The Rockets still took him in despite his history and antics which were many including the worst brawl in NBA history. If anyone was a time bomb he was. Yet the Lakers won rings with him. The Bulls won rings with Rodman despite him taking off for Vegas without team permission. I trust people like John Lucas who work with him everyday to assess whether or not he should be on the team.
You are leaving out the fact that his contract amount still took a big hit because of said antics and brawl. That is the primary point of discussion here. Most people don't mind if KPJ stays. The point of contention has always been "How much would we pay for him to stay?"
I have repeatedly said I am fine with whatever the org decides, a team friendly deal now, or wait for KPJ to play out this year and deal with him in RFA - whatever works is fine. I do believe KPJ has a huge top end - not sure he will get there, but his top end is very high. I do believe he came from a very tough background and made some really poor choices, but he is coming around, and seems to be maturing, and is only 22 years old. So, if you believe he has the talent - and the Rocks org clearly does as do so many NBA player who talk about him - you help him reach his potential by having a plan in place to help that maturity on and off the court. And, no, I am not worried about an incident he immediately apologized for and the org said no problem.....20 years ago this stuff happened and no one knew about it. Hell Mad Max was going to stab Hakeem after Dream slapped him - we didn't hear about that for 25 years.....so I am not going to overeact to a kid making a bad decision....out of frustration. Not when he has superstar talent.... DD
LMAO @ the pearl clutchers. Wasnt the faux outrage already covered? I thought guys were tired of covering "the same old crap" and how it wouldnt change any minds? Ron Artest was part of the single most heinous "criminal assault" during a game in the history of the sport! Not even debatable. Kevin Porter Jr threw his hot n spicy at the CLE GM for turning over his locker to a guy who just recently got busted for manufactured substances! During his rehabilitation HERE he had a relapse where he "threw his soup" during halftime at Lucas allegedly and left. Did anyone remember how much Chris Wood had to do with that situation? Guy was single handedly throwing the game and KPJ was the problem?
Considering we shipped him off to a team that might not even play him as a starter, this is a pretty weak argument. Artest's situation supports this point; man got banned for a season and got a much smaller next contract. He only got a contract with the Lakers after proving he could be a good boy throughout an entire season with us. You think for a second they would have signed him if he kept up the same level of antics while with us?
This is the guy that was "reformed" @chenjy9 ??? I'll take bratty outbursts over serial brutalizers anyday. Artests record of dirty plays speaks for itself. His offcourt accusations and criminal endeavors do the same. You should be arguing more about KPJs issue with getting pulled over with a loaded gun and weed no? Throwing soup was the line in the sand?
Not at all. What I am saying however is that bad behavior should and does absolutely affect the amount of money you get on a contract. With his behavioral issues, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable giving him $15M or more if I was Stone. At the same time, like we previously talked about, if he breaks out next season and has no behavioral issues, I am fine paying him potential superstar money. Hope that's clear enough.
If KPJ and Artest were equal performers, I would choose KPJ over Artest. The debate has never been whether or not KPJ is worse than Artest though. The debate IS about whether or not we should let KPJ's past behavior issues affect how much money we are willing to offer. You are presenting a straw man argument here as a tangent.
Where are you getting this information? I have not once read a report that indicates that he: Left the game due to an injury, and left the arena in frustration. Was upset the coach was singling him out. However, he did throw an object at an assistant coach. It's not as bad as choking a coach, but it's not a lot better either. In addition, this was not one incident, he had another incident with Memphis where he refused to check out of a game and visibly quit on the court.
Crystal clear! Ok now that we're back to reality -- I agree that behaviour is part of the formula and probably why KPJ doesnt have an extension as of this moment. Sadly for guys that espouse "law and order" professional sport can rub those moral high grounds the wrong way because whether you or I like it or not if a guy is bigger, faster and stronger than the normal citizen and can play a sport at a high level he will ALWAYS be given 2nd, 3rd, 4th and even 5th chances -- in particular with the example of Ron Artest being used. We're chasing our tails man. You need a season of choir boy behaviour to give him 20+ "superstar money" and I'd rather give him a more conservative market value NOW that wouldnt interfere with ANYTHING moving forward and would prevent having to break the bank next season or beyond. You give him 15 NOW and that is easy to move if he continues to be a distraction and even more easily absorbed when the cap spikes in 2024.
How is it a strawman? I didnt even bring Artest into the equation! I only chuckled when he becomes a baseline for KPJs "issues" especially when one pales in comparison to the other.
Just to be clear, I am not expecting choir boy behavior. He can wear a dress and marry himself during his off time for all I care. All I want is for him to prove he can go an entire season without any criminal activities off the clock and act like a professional while on the clock. Basically reasonable expectations an employer has for any employee in any field.
It's a straw man argument because it completely deviates from the actual point of discussion. One is about whether or not behavioral issues affect contracts (which it absolutely did for Artest) and the other is trying to directly compare the misdeeds of both players, which was never the argument.
Got it! Again just remember you cant compare your good friend Billy over in cubicle 1B that is finishing STAR reports to anything in the professional sports world. I personally dont think its an apples to apples expectation, but its okay that you do. As bad as it is pro athletes have more leverage and chances than an average person. Average Joe throws soup in the breakroom at a manager probably doesnt get another chance - if that is the stance I agree with it.
See, I disagree with this point. Say he breaks up with Kysre next season after signing that "more conservative" contract and completely relapses on us. You may disagree, but I definitely believe that contract will absolutely interfere with us. At that point, we will be the ones paying to move $15M or however much off the books.
I am definitely NOT comparing him to your standard 8 to 5 employee. In most professions, he would have been fired already. That said, the universal expectation of ANY professional field is to act like a professional when on the clock. That doesn't change in the NBA.
Right but the misdeeds of each player in discussion are night and day from one another. Bringing up Artest in terms of passion and edge is one thing, but they really are bad examples. KPJ vs Artest is not even in the same stratosphere in terms of "bad guy" comparisons. Yes behavioural issues impact "worth" and should be accounted for on a case by case basis. Im more concerned that KPJ isnt hanging around shady cliques and individuals and finds himself riding around with guns and drugs again, more than I am about his passion on the court or in the locker room, but thats just my personal view.
