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Breaking: FBI raiding Mar-a-Lago

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by larsv8, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Redacted version of the search warrant affidavit. 55 pages (large spaced out fonts) and much of it remains reacted. It's a short read. It also includes an explanation of the gov's proposed redactions. Suggestion: read it before you chatter or post editorial pieces.

    Quick Summary :
    1- The gov is conducting a criminal investigation: "improper removal and storage of classified information in unauthorized space, as well as the unlawful concealment or removal of government records"
    1a- Investigation to determine how the docs were removed from the authorized locations and came to Mar-a-Lago, whether Mar-a-Lago was an authorized location for storage of material, whether any additional materials may have been stored there or another unknown location, any persons who may have removed or retained classified info without authorization or in an unauthorized space
    1b- FBI determined that National Defense Information (NDI) were among the materials contained in the 15 boxes stored at an unauthorized location
    1c- FBI: probable cause that ADDITIONAL doc that contains NDI or that are subjected to record retention requirements currently remain at Mar-a-Lago
    1d- FBI: probably cause that evidence of obstruction will be found at Mar-a-Lago

    2- #1 begins due to NARA referral to DOJ on 2/9/22.
    2a- NARA requested documents on May'21, 15 boxes were retrieved on Jan'22 (8Months)

    3- Reference to US Law, US classification of documentation, Safeguard requirements, National security risks level (damage, serious damage, exceptional grave damage), Presential records (not necessary classified), Government records (not necessary classified).
    3a- General classification based on damages: Confidential - damage, Secret - serious damage, Top Secret - exceptional grave damage
    3b- reference to SCI, SI, HCS, FISA, NOFORN, ORCON type of document (has Intel sources and methods, intercepted foreign communication, human intel sources... all of these require formal access control)

    4- some details
    4a- FBI review of the 15 boxes contains 184 unique classified doc (67 confidential, 92 secrets, 25 top secrets including HCS, FISA, ORCON, NOFORN, SI). It was noted that there seem to be Trump handwriting notes on some of these documents.
    4b- there is a note that illegal retention of "information related to the national defense" is a crime (it does not need to be classified)

    5- Letters
    5a- May'22 Trump's lawyer letter to DOJ claims President has absolute power to declassify based on the Constitution (POTUS is commander-in-chief) and Presidential and former Presidential actions involving classified documents are not subjected to criminal sanctions.
    5b- June'22 DOJ reiterate Mar-a-Lago is not an authorized location to store classified documents and requested that all material must be secured in its current conditions

    6- Outline procedure for search
    7- Explain the reason for the redacted version (public interest need, witness protection, privacy protection, not compromising technique and investigation)

    Case_9-22-mj-08332-BER-AFFIDAVIT[REDACTED] - DocumentCloud
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    WSJ EB is crap, that's why.
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Yes it’s just odd that the WSJ is even trying to use this to downplay the seriousness of the issue. If I had to guess I would think the Editors are feeling heat from ownership to find someway to downplay this.
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    25 top secret documents which are classified that way due to "exceptional grave damage" to national security were in the original 15 boxes. We do not yet know what was found in the Aug'22 search. I don't know how anyone could downplay this. While this is extremely damaging to Trump, it's even more damaging to the US. I have to think the material there could easily be copied by foreign spies - Mar-a-Lago is not a secure place and is publicly well known. I bet the US gov has already made that assumption and is actively assessing how much damage has been done, and our foreign partners are thinking twice about sharing intel secrets with us.

    Note that the investigation (since ~Feb 2022) is not known to the public until after the search. Don't expect to hear anything from the DoJ while they continue investigating except when Trump's side leaks or made public more private communications. There are also likely DoJ investigations on-going related to Jan-6.
     
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  5. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  6. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    He did destroy documents. The first batch had torn up documents NARA had to tape back together. Some could not be restored.
     
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  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I have no idea who Jesse Kelly is but the justification is literally in the non redacted parts of the affidavit
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    This is a dumb tweet on multiple levels.

    1. They did reveal why.

    2. The amount of reactions isn't a win for Team Trump, it is a loss.
    • The reactions are to protect civilians and the identity of those helping the investigation
    • The ongoing investigation is still looking for more confederates and evidence
    • It signifies they got a lot of information from one or maybe multiple sources that provided an insane amount of evidence.
    • So there was potentially a large amount of crimes or evidence related to the crimes and that they are still investigating a lot more.
    3. Criminal justice 101 will tell you not to expose your sources give criminals time and opportunity to destroy evidence or tip off their confederates. It is 100% standard operating procedure.

    4. The reactions are absolutely justified to protect agents involved because Trump supporters have already physically attacked FBI. It isn't a 'just-in-case' kind of deal. It's already happened.

    Whining and crying over reactions isn't a winning tactic. The reactions are potentially worse for the Trump cause.
     
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  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    So I am left to guess that Jesse is illiterate?
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Trump and his supporters made a big fuss about transparency. Yet they never requested the Court to unseal the search warrant. News orgs made that request. And when it's time to tell the Court what part of the search warrant should be public, the Gov provided their justification which the Court accepted. Trump's side was allowed to object and they didn't.

    Source: Redacted version of the search warrant affidavit (pg 50, 52)
     
  11. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    That's just a flat out lie. These guys are not even trying anymore. He illegally removed (stole) top secret documents and illegally stored them in his house and illegally obstructed the governments investigation. The affidavit lays it all out.
     
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  12. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Let's also revisit the 'declassification' lie.

    If Trump did declassify those documents, then anyone of us could file a FOIA request and see them.

    I know of one journalist that has already done that. So if it's declassified, we will all know what was in the documents.

    Trump's team never filed a motion to release the affadavit to unseal the warrant in the first place.

    Trump is just throwing out crap and hoping it will fool enough people.

    The fact that a scammer passed herself off as Anna Rothschild and got on just shows how insecure the place is. We know that foreign adversaries would love to see those documents and it isn't too difficult to get access.

    Honestly the defenses from team Trump were never good to begin with. But now that people are crying about reactions and the laughable, "it's just top secret classified documents" defense, shows that this debate is coming to an end. Team Trump has nothing left. Running for office won't help him. A Republican victory in the midterms won't help him. He's done.

    That may or may not mean he ends up being indicted, but even if not, he's finished.

    Even Republicans are starting to slowly drift away.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/trump-search-republican-reactions.html

    This isn't because the media or Democrats ignored Trump and he would just go away as some advised. It was quite the opposite.

    It is happened when the light was shown on his activities and the rule of law was applied to him.
     
    #2692 FranchiseBlade, Aug 27, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
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  13. thegary

    thegary Member

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    Not sure what the consequences should or will be but trump is busted. No amount of political gum flapping can save him now. The best part of all this is he did it to himself.
     
  14. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    how far we’ve come

    1st it was “Trump was just scrapbooking, he likes to collect magazine and newspaper clippings that he had every right to take”

    then it was he had declassified everything…that didn’t work so then it was the FBI planted the documents which he now wants back

    Where are we at now?
     
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  15. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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  16. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    Where we've always been: Trump is bad. We know that he's bad. We like that he's bad. Most of all like that he upsets you.
     
  17. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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  18. FranchiseBlade

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    His legal team actually never claimed Trump did declassify the documents. They included that he had the authority to declassify them. Not that he actually did declassify.

    And again if he did declassify, any one of us could file a FOIA request and read everything in the documents
     
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  19. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    they’re contradicting Trump because he said he had declassified everything in 1 of his early lies
     
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  20. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I think Trump subscribes to the general theory that if he says something is true, it is true.

    If he says the documents were declassified, they were declassified. It doesn't make one bit of difference what evidence one might pull up to contradict that stance.
     

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