Btw, Victor Wembanyama could not finish in the top 3 MVP voting in the Turkish league. Sengun won it at 18 years old. Must be meaningless right? Right.
not just mvp of the Turkish league, Sengun also played in the nba and we have an idea of how his game translates. Wembanyama or someone else, the over valuation of the yet to be drafted by overlooking the possible pitfalls is mind blowing. People assume the best case scenario or even more for these guys.
Yeah but, he's white. Therefore he's not athletic. Duh! Boy oh boy I cannot wait to watch this guy again.
I mean i just had an argument with someone who claimed Victor was better than Sengun a couple weeks ago while I pointed out that every in available stat there is to be looked at, Sengun trumps Victor in all of them while playing in the NBA versus Victor playing in the french league. If you compare Sengun's stats to Victor's in the Euroleague, the gap is even wider. Not to say that Victor doesn't have the talent to become a better player than Sengun is what I have a problem with, it's claiming that that is already the case while any and all available data points toward it not being the case. Victor's stats look quite ordinary if you look at them in a vacuum. It's the projection of what he could be that is intriguing.
Sengun averaged .8 steals and .9 blocks in only 20mpg. His steal and block rates of 2% and 4%, respectively, shows that he has at least some defensive potential. He has questionable ability to switch on the perimeter but that's an issue for all bigs nowadays. And he was foul prone so he may need to cut back on his aggressiveness to stay on the floor.
Yes but count me as a guy who believes in Victor's game translating well to the NBA - maybe even better than the Euroleague. My thing is that Sengun was the best player in the 4th best league in the world at 18 years old. Just the mental fortitude to do that is immense, and that there is creativity attached to that mental fortitude is the gold that everyone looks for in draft prospects. We really don't have to diminish Victor. You don't have to win the MVP of your league at 18 to end up a superstar international draft prospect, but to win it is a more significant accomplishment than all but a handful of college players have ever achieved in their lives. I don't believe that the top picks in the draft like Barnes, Cunningham, etc can go to the Turkish league and win the MVP at 18. It's not something to brush off, it's something to invest in.
When it comes to the fouls, a lot of them were not actual fouls but were "welcome to the league rook" type BS. Hopefully a bit of that goes away going forward.
Did not mean to diminish Victor. Just pointing out that, MVP at age 18 in the turkish league is almost a guarantee of a decent player in the nba, with potentially lower ceiling. Sengun was playable from day 1. Victor is just another story. He might end up much better than Sengun, but no comparable success yet, many unknowns and no guarantee.
I don’t think Sengun is flying under the radar at all - I hear his name in this board all the time and outside Rocket fans, he is a common reference point for people explaining why this team is super promising. …but I do think as other defenders level up, if Sengun doesn’t also level up, he will increasingly be “hunted”. The defense was so bad last year a team had an advantage in most matchups across the floor so Sengun wasn’t hunted but when we are rolling out lineups with Smith, Green, and potentially Eason - good offensive teams will run plays to put Sengun increasingly in the path of better offensive players. That’s why I say - contextually being a bad defender trending mediocre on a bad team is not the same thing as being a bad defender on a good team because you are only as strong as your weakest link and the question really becomes - how does Sengun’s ceiling as a defender impact the team’s broader chances of success because he probably has the lowest ceiling of a future starting five here.
Lowest ceiling defensively? I disagree there, but can see your point. For sure doesn’t have the lowest ceiling as an overall player
Yes but you can say that about practically any rookie. What I'm talking about is people acting like something happened defensively last season to treat his defense as an area of serious concern. Bad advanced defensive stats while being surrounded by the players he was surrounded with is not evidence. Defense is way less measurable in a tanking season than offense.In fact, advanced defensive stats are in general horrifically inaccurate when looking at the rankings. If he had great stats there, it would also not be evidence. So this hurdle that people are saying he has to clear, it sounds - and I'll be the first one to say it - like a generalization and a stereotype. He has never looked like a player who should be hunted. He is extremely agile and nimble for a C. His athleticism is limited in vertical and forward explosion. Sticking with the Bogut comparison, Andrew Bogut would look horrible in that line up. Andrew Bogut did not have the wingspan or athleticism to chase down - for example - Christian Wood's man penetrating the defense every other play and shut him down while being able to recover back to his own man if the correct pass is made. However, Bogut was a great defensive C, a championship calibre defensive C. Look, he could end up a bad defensive C, it's 50-50. The point is, anyone who is acting like last season was reason to be alarmed about his defensive potential or that it looked like his defensive potential limits his ceiling is not watching the games. The only rock solid conclusion that can be drawn from last season imo is that he won't be an elite defensive C. That doesn't put him out of the conversation for being a top 3 player on a championship team, no way no how. The Cavaliers won a title with Kevin Love at C, the Heat with Bosh at C, the Warriors with Bogut, the Bucks with Brook Lopez. Meanwhile if he polishes that 3pt shot that the coaches seem to believe in, how do you stop him offensively? He doesn't take dumb mid range shots. His interior finishing and passing is elite for a rookie big man. This is not a guy who needs to play great defense just to be worth developing. It's out of the ordinary that people discuss him as though he's Bruno Fernando.
He needs to develop a go to shot like Scola had. Scola had that sweet little jumper from the elbow or FT line that was pure. That will open up lanes for cutters because the defense will have to respect him.
İnterestingly, I reasoned completely the opposite way and thought that Sengun will benefit from better players around him. One way or the other we’ll get a better picture by all star break this season.
yes, defensively - my bad for not calling that out. I think he's an offensive genius, but I'm much more cautious on his defensive ceiling....and frankly it's not all his fault - it's just bigger centers get exposed in playoff situations. There is a ceiling defensively to the modern big - even historically good ones like Gobert because it's really hard for a very large human to stay with modern wings who can be great shooters, very quick, and have the skill to play that hurky jerky style of play that makes it really hard for big guys to change directions quickly.
