Right, that's kind of what I was getting at. Also a lot of programs are not above accepting a PhD student and making them pay tuition even though the admissions committee knows they're unlikely to complete the program. Publishing is such a big source for colleges, that giving a PhD to someone who can't get published will hurt the school. Not so if you lead a candidate on and make them pay big money. The teacher I mentioned in my last quote was going to Columbia (the Ivy not the country) lol.
I think an Associate's with classroom experience (student teaching, working with young children for elementary school) should be enough. Keep in mind, it's very hard to find qualified people to teach in rural areas. I'd rather have smaller class sizes.
The bigger story in Arizona education is their new rollout of Empowerment Scholarship Accounts that will take money out of the public school system and inject it into private education. If the liberals are right, the public school system will collapse and it won't matter that their teachers don't have college degrees. It'll be the private schools that decide how much education makes you qualified to teach. While we're on the subject, I'm actually pro- privatization of K-12 school. A lot of what is wrong with American education stems from it being a government function. But I think Arizona is headed for a lot of trouble because they created a hybrid market instead of spinning off their existing schools. So public schools will get ever worse with shrinking classes, shrinking budgets and teacher shortages while private schools pick and choose which kids they want as students, leaving some segment of undesirables with no access to decent education. It is an unfortunate compromise they took because supporters of public education wouldn't let them have the whole pie. This is probably a case where a whole pie would be best, but no pie is preferable to half a pie. I expect AZ education to particularly suck for the next decade or two.
The privatization of K-12 would be a disaster for people who aren't wealthy and/or live in non-urban areas. Most affordable places are only going to be serviced by churches, and as far as I'm aware...private K-12 schools are not bound by Brown v. Board of Ed. Also, with the privatization of K-12 you're going to see even more kids not meeting basic standards...particularly if they go to an ultra religious school or a private school that isn't meant for the richest people. What does that look like when they get to college? A lot of remedial classes, which means more time in school, more loan debt to pay off and that's assuming they even get to college or stick with it when they do. As a taxpayer with no children and no plans to have any, I have zero issue paying taxes for public school. Especially because your home value and quality of the nearest public school are inherently linked. But there's no way in hell I want my tax dollars subsidizing any school that teaches children that I'm some sort of subhuman.
I think the Arizona approach will do that. I don't think all privatization schemes will necessarily do that. Obviously, I don't want a system that provides a worse education for the poor; the trick is building a mousetrap that will do what you expect. But, I doubt it's going to be fruitful to bend this thread into a school privatization thread. I was pitching in on the AZ discussion that they've thrown this other wrench into their public education system, one that I think will go very badly for them even though I more generally share their vision.
Yes it is I have xsperience and I say that. There is nothing being taught in college that you can't get other ways to learn about teaching a wide variety of learners. Anybody teaching over 15 years probably did not learn that in college anyway that's a recent development in education since inclusion has been a huge part of the curriculum. It only was made law in 2001 and co teachers are a recent phenom that all states have adopted.
In some school districts, it's hard to get a job if you don't have one and they expect you to get one to advance.
Yes, people could teach for 15 years go to all kinds of professional development and eventually learn enough to teach different types of learners. But that sucks for the students they have until they learn. People coming out of college have a base knowledge to start with.
Step 1: Underfund Public Schools Step 2: OverRegulate Public Schools Step 3: Start hiring under qualified teachers Step 4: B*tch and Moan about schools failing Step 5: Have De Facto segregation by taking public money and giving it to private schools that can discriminate with impunity The Problem is. ... . . do Private schools do a better job teaching or do they simply kick out everyone that would bring their numbers down? Esp considering they don't have to follow the same regulations and They can simply be any -ist or -phobe you want . .. sexist racist trannsphobe homophobe etc They could teach THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT AND DEM COLORED SHOULD BE LOCKED UP (ok maybe a bit of an exageration) Rocket River Rocket River
What? You don't need to go through professional development to learn how to teach different types of learners and the people that have taught for 15 years probably have less than 8 hours of training in teaching different types of learners. People coming out of college don't have a greater base of knowledge for teaching than most who have been in the working world for a period of time. It's obvious you have this idea of what it takes to be a good teacher, having a college degree is not in the top 5.
Either you hire "underqualified" teachers or you go without teachers what do you think is more important?
related Jill Biden to headline teachers union convention https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...-biden-to-headline-teachers-union-convention/ in Boston on Friday. excerpt: “She knows what it’s like to grade papers over dinner; to call a student at home to check on them, or their family; to see someone’s eyes light up when they recognize a concept in a book or articulate an idea to the rest of their classmates,” Weingarten said. The Biden administration has closely aligned itself with teachers unions. Last week, Vice President Harris addressed the National Education Association at the union’s 2022 annual meeting and representative assembly. more at the link
In my experience, professional development is required in different ways. All teachers in our district have to through a huge amount of professional development. Is it possible that a person with an amazing natural talent could understand about teaching with no college and no PD? Sure. Would most people be able to do it? I don't believe so, but in your experience you do. I guess we can agree to disagree.
I dont know much about K-12 teaching but some of this backlash against professionalization seems to stem from the very American idea that education should be as rudimentary as possible. Funny how the same people who complain yhat we "dont teach woodshop!" (even though most schools do) also talk about how teachers should just stick to the 3 Rs...two of which dont even start with R!
I'm watching a video about book bans right now, I'll post it if there's interest but I should add that the restrictions on certain topics (race, homosexuality, sex ed) in public schools are likely also part of a strategy to defund public education. Hardcore religious people with the money to do so will always send their kids to private schools and not want to pay for public education if they don't have to. So how do you increase support for cutting (if not ending) funding for K12 schools? Make rich liberals also send their kids to private schools. The phenomenon is already present in major liberal cities, but not so in the suburbs. Cutting or removing K12 schools also has another advantage...property values in towns with bad schools will rise. Property values in towns with good schools will fall. So if you're really smart about it, you can offer way over market value for residential property in a place like inner-city Houston...then wait until that property isn't linked to bad schools...meaning more people will want to live there. I don't know if it's all connected...but if I had the means and wanted to: a) get rid of public education b) promote religious schools c) increase my financial portfolio I'd definitely do all of the above in addition to making public schools even more sub-par than they are with bills like this.
