AMA- I'm lesbian trans and don't want to indoctrinate your kids....

We have preachers of large baptist churches openly demanding that LGBTQ people need to be executed. There is a large enough contingent of humans in America that are comfortable with that rhetoric. There is a reason why suicide rates are so high in the community. It's because people like you lack basic empathy skills.

I'm sure you have empathy for ex-muslims who have large religious congregations demanding their death also and you would label that as them being oppressed.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing Lia Thomas didn't meet the standards for competing? That was never the point. These standards are obviously fluid though, as we have seen with FINA.

A biologically female athlete who trained, probably their whole life and dedicated most of their youth to going as far as they could in swimming missed out on an incredible athletic achievement because of Lia Thomas. That's true of biological women in other sports as well, whether that means anything to you is up to you, it means something to me, I think it's pretty tragic and I don't think it's right. I don't think we should be nasty to Trans people but I think the only sensible solution is to exclude them from competitive sport.

That's one way to look at whether Lia had an advantage or not. I think it's incorrect. You should look at where Lia went in Men's competition to Women's competition. Which was quite a massive jump up. It's obvious the physical advantages from being a biological male are pronounced. Just because a very small amount of women at the NCAA level can still beat Lia doesn't mean she didn't massively benefit. She still might have moved up several hundred places switching from Men's to Women's.

With more and more of younger generations identifying as Trans, this sports issue is only going to get more common place. A decision has to be made and it's going to suck for someone. I wouldn't take any pleasure in it.

 

Here’s How Letting Boys Compete As Girls Hurts Female Athletes Like Me

https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/23/heres-how-letting-boys-compete-as-girls-hurts-female-athletes-like-me/

 

Why can't people who express support for women athletes and their rightful frustration on this issue not devle into the " disillusional boys" rhetoric? Why are the same people who say they care about these woman athletes also using rhetoric that people who are anti-trans use?

Aren't they shooting themselves in the foot if they sincerely care about this issue? Won't their complaints be more receptive if they were more empathetic to trans folks while also voicing their complaint?
.it seems like they don't really care about this issue and just use it as a crutch to put down trans folk.

If there are any woman athletes here who are frustrated with this situation, do you think that someone like the author of this article is actually sincerely caring about your issues or are they just using your frustrations as a crutch for another agenda?

 

At this point I think it is hard to argue that trans women doesn’t have an advantage over cis women at least in some sports.

I don’t know what the solution is. I would like to have a clean solution and in general society we can have that on most issues involving trans people. Sports looks like it may not be the case.

I understand why transgender women wouldn’t want to be in a separate category when it comes to high level competitive sports. However at this point I think that may be the solution. I am certainly open for other solutions and am not an expert.

 

“Oh someone impacted by this offering an opinion, a cis female athlete. The Federalist? Hmm okay maybe I will be surprised…. Nope… too bad. “

 

You left out "graduate of Liberty University"

 

does her opinion somehow not count?

 

Did you miss the smiley face?

 

I thought that was the Anita Bryant Good Housekeeping Seal of Militant Secular Atheists Approval™

 

It doesn't immediate disqualify her opinion but the fact that she went to a religious university that is notorious for being anti LGBTQ and does not allow students in their private lives to be in same sex relationships, doesn't recognize transgenderism and has pushed conversion therapy to "cure them" doesn't really help her cause.

Considering that she referred to transgender people as "disillusioned boys" only really hurts her cause, assuming she is sincere in the concern about transgender athletes competing against cis athletes. Instead her terminology and background steers the conversation to a larger issues of whether transgenderism is even real - and that doesn't help her cause at all.

 

Thanks for exposing your racism. You are wrong, but whatever you say doesn't matter to me at all. I wish you well in dealing with your issues.

 

Spoiler: Hmm...

Even though she is insane, hates the homeless, prostitutes, gays and everyone else.... I would have still boned her when she was younger... because I am a POS

 

It's not a "big problem" because there aren't many trans and among the trans, there are less people who will take that scrutiny to train into becoming an Olympic class athlete.

But the issue is pronounced, and we should confront and address the physiological advantages rather than sugar coat things to give the appearance that (biological) men and women are equal in physical traits.

I don't think it's cheating, but it is an exploit of the current rules. Exploits don't mean "open seasons" for all trans to "take advantage", but it does mean the problem simmers until there are edge cases that advance to national and international levels. It's much like the sprinter who lost his legs and raised eyebrows after dominating a non-disabled world championship.

People know this on an inherent level, so is it okay with that getting by on the lower levels and shrugging it off?

That's the tougher question in fairness for both sides that we're not answering.

 

And as stated I am fine with FINA changing the standards.

And what of all the women who didn’t make the cut for any sort of reasons? You’re drawing a distinction here that the NCAA didn’t draw.

Let’s use another example. I do a sport that has weight classes and people frequently drop weight classes. Is it fair to someone who has worked hard most of their competitive life at a certain weight class to suddenly lose a team spot to someone who dropped down to be in that weight class? I mean someone who is naturally larger will have an advantage over someone who is naturally smaller and given that in many tournaments you weigh in a day before so you can regain weight loss back by competition time by the reasoning above wouldn’t that be unfair? Should we also ban transitioning from one weight class to another?

Also sports are inherently unfair to some extent. I’m a biological man who has never transitioned, Katie Ledecky is taller and probably much stronger than me. Being male doesn’t automatically mean I’m so physically superior that I can beat Katie Ledecky. In a pool I’m more likely to drown than to beat her.

I actually did a rare thing here and changed my mind on this issue when I actually saw Lia Thomas’ results. In the beginning of the other thread I actually felt that biological advantages would be too great to overcome and early reports were making it seem like she was winning every time she touched the water and blowing up world records. Her performance isn’t anywhere close to that.

She went from being a mediocre mens swimmer to being a good, not great, womens swimmer. Certainly transitioning to another class could be the cause of that but consider she’s also had a few years to improve her technique. It’a been known to happen especially at amateur athletics to improve quite a bit in the span of a few years. It’s speculative to put her improvement all on her transition because we have no way of knowing if she had stayed a man how would be doing now.

There might be more trans athletes and I reserve the right to change my mind it if does appear to be that biological women can’t compete against trans women. I’m not seeing that now. I don’t see that with Lia Thomas and having coached a trans women I didn’t see her dominating against biological women at her same weight class either.

 

Again I changed my opinion when I looked at the facts.

the facts are that in the one example being brought up, Lia Thomas, isn’t close to dominating her sport. She won one race with a time that in many years wouldn’t have made the podium. That’s not a pronounced difference especially given that her second best performance in the NCAA’s was fifth.

This is the problems that I’m seeing with this argument. It’s based on supposition far more than actual hard data. The supposition is that biological men are generally stronger than biological women. Yes that is supported by data for non transitioned men. What we don’t have a lot of data points though is how much does transitioning affect that?

From what I’ve seen of trans athletes it does seem to affect that and if there is an evidence that the process affects your health, one poster described it like getting a gastric bypass, then it would make even more sense thay transitioning doesn’t preserve any prior biological advantage.

At the moment from what I’ve seen both in the Lia Thomas case and coaching a trans athlete this problem is far more overblown than an actual problem.

 

And do you have conclusive evidence showing that? Because one trans women winning one race doesn’t seem like a definitive sample size.