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The state of the democratic party

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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  2. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Because crime is concentrated in very small areas. You may want to look more closely at the cities or even neighborhoods where those murders are taking place. Look at St. Louis for example. That is in a Republican led state. Who do you think dominates the politics in St. Louis? Do you think the homicide rate of the state is driven more by someplace like St. Louis, or someplace like Platte City?
     
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Ok so how about La, Miss, Ala, and OK,?

    Where are the liberal bastions in those states?
     
  4. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

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    Lol.. In the same areas as the rest of the states - inner cities.

    Look at New Orleans for example from the very link you posted..

    New Orleans has a murder rate of about 37 per 100,000 residents, one of the highest of any U.S. city, followed by Baton Rouge with a murder rate of 35.1.

    Guess who is mayor of Baton Rouge and New Orleans? Both are Democrats.
     
  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Ok I give you LA.

    How abou Ok, Miss, Ala?

    It's amazing that you think a mayor is the key to crime but hey I can play that game as well, Shreveport has a republican mayor so I guess the murder rates are much lower?
     
  6. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

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    What? It’s amazing a mayor is the key to crime? Where did I say that? Lol… and I’m playing games.. Perhaps you should read and stop asking questions that you already know the answer. All I did was point out that the link you posted answered your questions. So would a quick google search.

    If you honestly believe that red states have higher crime rates due to the red counties in that state, you’re clearly delusional.
     
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  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Ok so what was the point of replying to my post saying this?

    Lol.. In the same areas as the rest of the states - inner cities.

    Look at New Orleans for example from the very link you posted..

    New Orleans has a murder rate of about 37 per 100,000 residents, one of the highest of any U.S. city, followed by Baton Rouge with a murder rate of 35.1.


    Guess who is mayor of Baton Rouge and New Orleans? Both are Democrats.

    You were the person that 1st brought up mayors, did you forget that?

    And this is what I was replying to in my original post.

    Crime is not a statewide phenomenon, it is localized to cities or even neighborhoods. Look at the cities with the highest crime rate, they are not exactly Republican strongholds: Top 15 Cities with Highest Crime Rate in the US [Report 2022] (usabynumbers.com)
    St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, etc. Democrat after Democrat. I think the first city on the list with a mayor that isn't a Democrat is Stockton, CA, and that is only because the last mayor, Michael Tubbs, was never around and more concerned about his work in Washington than his work in the city, always trying to push his UBI strategy. The majority of the city government is still Dems though.

    So do you have the same issue with the poster who is blaming these crime rates on Democratic mayors?
     
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    tl;dw version:

    JONES: Well, listen, we’re in danger of becoming a party of the very high and the very low. If you pull out the working class you’ve got people who are very well-educated and very well off. Those people talk funny.

    Latinx — I’ve never met a Latinx. I’ve never met a BIPOC. I’ve never met, you know, all this weird stuff that these highly educated people say. It’s bizarre. Nobody talks that way at the barber shop and the nail salon, the grocery store, the community center. But that’s how we talk now, so that’s weird.

    And then the people who are very low down on the economic ladder need a bunch of stuff. You wind up overpromising — oh, we’re going to give you reparations — to people at the bottom of the economic ladder, talking weird to appeal to people at the top of the economic ladder, and the working class walks away from you. That is the danger we’re facing.

    BERMAN: Can I just ask because you’ve been on the show talking about this before. What kind of reaction do you get when you say this? What do hear from national Democrats?

    JONES: Well, I think that there is a penalty you pay if you don’t go along with the normal narrative. The normal narrative has been all Black and brown people hate racists. All Republicans are racist so all Black and brown voters are going to vote for Democrats. All of that doesn’t make sense in the real world.

    All Republicans are not racist, and Republican appeals are not just racial. Some of them are economic, some of them are cultural, and all Black and brown folks are not liberals.

    Yes. Listen, Black and brown folks go to church a lot. If you want Black churchgoers and Latin Catholics to vote for Democrats you’re going to have to do things that make it seem like maybe get those issues, which are primarily economic issues, family issues, bread and butter issues — bread and butter issues. And if you’re going to talk about the cultural issues you’ve got to talk about it in a way that resonates with a working mom or working dad and not just folks who went to college.
     
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  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Three Blind Kings
    A Q&A with geostrategist and Pentagon guru Edward Luttwak

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/three-blind-kings-edward-luttwak

    excerpt:

    When I look at the United States from the outside, as an America-loving outsider, I see a country in the throes of one of those periodic implosions that are not entirely legible to non-Americans. You have manias about race. Manias about gender identity. You have the willful disaggregation of universities and other institutions under the banner of wokeness, which is a doctrine of blind obedience to a party line established by people who are 95% illiterate and can’t remember what they decreed last week. Policy is a product of hardened dogma, and therefore inevitably fails. Gas prices are crazy. Nearly 50% of children in urban school systems have basically just stopped going to school.

    And you have a so-called elite that spits hysterical contempt for the people in whose name they ostensibly rule, denouncing them as a pack of racist, sexist, white supremacist, transphobic, gun-toting disease-spreaders who will hopefully soon die out and be replaced by a more obedient class of servants. I guess it’s not surprising that the American aristocracy is pretty much the worst aristocracy on Earth—bad manners, bad taste, bad art, hostile to religion and the popular arts. Their concept of largesse is to establish a foundation to combat climate change by instructing the yokels not to eat meat. The last aristocracy that showed this kind of contempt for its own people and popular folkways was the French in the days of Marie Antoinette.
    more at the link
     
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  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Jackson, Mississippi
    Birmingham, Alabama
    New Orleans and Baton Rouge, Louisiana
     
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  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I still refuse to see how those still are not Republican run states. If California had toxic waste in the tap water only in a Republican city out in the Eastern part of the state would that then be a Republican only problem???

    Alabama runs Alabama regardless. Who governs Alabama governs Birmingham and Huntsville and Gulf Shores. This Republican lack of accountability for anything ever is ridiculous.
     
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  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Also if Republican states refuse to govern cities in their states where there happen to be black people then fine… give up those cities and allow them to become their own states.
     
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  13. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    If judges in these counties decide to keep repeat offenders in jail, many murders and assaults can be avoided. I am interested in how the elections will go in Harris county.
     
  14. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    There are national, state, and local governments. The national government passes laws that affect the whole country, like setting federal income tax rates. The state governments pass laws that affect the whole state, like defining criminal statutes. The local governments (city/county) do most of the day-to-day work in the criminal justice system. Local police departments run by mayors and city councils are the ones making arrests, setting patrol areas, deciding where to try to get a search warrant. The city determines how many cops they are going to hire, who will be the chief, what they are going to budget for and what support they are going to give their officers. The District Attorney is going to decide what type of crimes they will have a prosecutorial focus on, what charges get filed, what plea bargains are made and rejected. The judges for the county get to decide what sentences they are going to be handing down in the event of convictions and can even undercut the DA if the criminal wants to just admit everything and be sentenced by the court. That is why crime is a local issue, not a state or federal issue. The governor doesn't have the granular control of what happens on the ground in the cities of his state. The state governments involvement is limited largely to simply defining what the crimes are and what range of punishments are available.

    To look at your hypothetical, it depends. If there is a criminal that is illegally dumping toxic waste in the water, that is probably a local government issue. If the state government allows dumping of toxic waste, then it is a state government issue. If the toxic waste is in the tap water because the military was dumping from a base nearby, then it is a federal government issue.
     
  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    You are trying really hard there bud. It’s simple. The state of Alabama governs and is responsible for Birmingham AND Orange Beach. The State of California is responsible and governs both Sacramento and Newport Beach. Even with municipal codes and local elections, the State has the power to step in under almost any circumstance. Especially on unprecedented public safety efforts.

    The fact is crime is bad in red states. If crime is so bad in this country that people like you think an autocrat like Trump is a necessity at a federal level to just govern the whole country under a hard right autocracy, then the red states at a state governing level are failing to the extreme to actually govern.

    Or maybe it’s just simple enough to say that the talking point that democrats are soft on crime is a bunch of bullshit.
     
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  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    How many repeat offenders murderers have been let out of jail by Harris county judges??

    If have unpaid parking tickets and get caught smoking weed am I a threat to murder someone??

    I’m not quite tracking your point here.
     
  17. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    No, repeat felony offenders get very small bonds and hit the streets. Similar to the situation where DA Gascon is getting sued in LA
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...A-cop-blasts-George-Gascon-woke-policies.html
     
  18. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    No. The state doesn't generally get involved in policing street crime. They don't have the resources for it. California has 58 counties, each with a District Attorney's office. Most if not all of the counties have multiple law enforcement agencies that feed the DAs office, that is hundreds of police departments, Sheriff's Departments, and each DA's office also has it's own internal police department. The state of California has one police department (the California Highway Patrol), and one prosecuting agency (the Attorney General's Office). Outside of multijurisdictional crimes or crimes where the local office must be recused, the AG doesn't do much in the way of prosecution of regular street crimes. That falls on the local DA's office. Those offices vary widely. When I was doing defense, there were counties where the same conduct would result in 60 days and probation in one place and four years in prison in another. Crime and prosecution are local. They are dealt with on the city/county level, not on the state level.
    People like me think crime generally is a non-issue in the United States and want a much smaller and less intrusive federal government. Crime is only really an issue in certain areas, typically in cities (though occasionally there is a rural corridor where a lot of guns/drugs/people are trafficked). That's why I vote Libertarian. The federal government is meant to have very limited powers confined to a small list of responsibilities. The job of the feds is to deal with other countries and resolve disputes between the states. It should be so weak domestically that it doesn't matter at all who is president for domestic issues.
    Democrats are soft on crime though. At least in California they are, I don't know enough about state and local politics in other jurisdictions to be sure. Here in California we had a pretty good system set up in the 70s and 80s that has been slowly getting dismantled by a Democrat supermajority changing the law at the state level. Locally, the disasters that have been Democrat DAs like Chesa Boudin and George Gascon are apparent and one of them was just recalled he was so terrible.
     
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Did you not read the part where I asked you where the evidence is that murderers are being released from prison?? You made the claim that urban areas like Harris County are releasing people from prison after committing multiple crimes to then murders. That's like kind of a different thing man. I asked how often Harris County has released people who have committed multiple murders and you avoided that question.
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I understand how the United States Shared Government works thank you. However States don't get to just have zero ownership of cities in their state as much as they try to at the state leadership level through gerrymandering, etc. where they punish parts of their state that don't vote their way. If red states despise cities so much in their state, you know that they can run on redrawing their state lines right? Designate that city as a US district or territory if you think it's such a hell hole and you as the Republican Governor or Secretary of State have ZERO power or influence to do anything about it.

    Given your theory of State officials having zero role in local cities and municipalities, I'm wondering why then did Gregg Abbott feel like he needed to be in Uvalde??? Hmmm....

    Libertarian.... ahaha... Okay man. I thought everyone gave up on that fake mantra. Do you realize that the "Libertarian Party" was created by a Real Estate Lobbying Firm who was trying to de-regulate the Real Estate industry to make money? Yeah... it was always a scam.

    I'll ask you this question then... name ONE country where Libertarian governments have succeeded???... give me one. Uganda says hello.

    The truth is there is no "free market" without regulations. You cannot have true competition that benefits everyone without rules. Otherwise the cartels essentially run the country, and in every case in history, the middle class gets gutted, the rich get richer, and the country essentially falls apart. Every damn time.

    But... I don't really think you are a Libertarian at all. Very few people here defend Trumpism the way you do, and show utter contempt for Democratic values the way you do here, so given the choice of an Autocrat like Trump and any Democrat.... Yeah... You ain't an Ayan Rand loving Libertarian at that point so you can say you vote that way, but given how our Democracy is structured as a coalition voting block in two groupings of coalitions (unfortunately) I know which coalition you belong to, and what that means.

    HAHA... that's the Republican way... "I don't know enough...." about X topic, but I damn sure do have a strong opinion about it, and I KNOW that Democrats are wrong.
     
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