Breaking 1-06-21: MAGA terrorist attack on Capitol

Well, the way it's written makes me think otherwise but that's me. Not saying liberals aren't guilty of logical inconsistencies. In fact, I'd say logical inconsistencies is pretty much a hallmark of being human.

 

And Greenberg who was running for mayor actually had the gunman fire bullets at him nicking his clothes, but that didn't get much reaction from the right.

In Kavanaugh's case, it was widely condemned by Biden and other leading democrats, and a bill was passed to protect Justices with very large majorities in both houses. It was covered by all the major papers and in the media. I don't get why there wasn't enough attention to this when to me, it seems like there was a great deal of coverage and reaction.

 

had to google this to get the details of the incident

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...e-mayor-candidate-craig-greenberg/6790409001/

 

Had they all brought guns, they would have never made it inside the capitol building. A group of people with guns can't be mistaken or given the benefit of the doubt that they are just spirited protesters.

So the fact that doors were opened and the insurrectionists came in swinging and spraying before they ever even interacted with the people on the other side shows they were initiating the violence.

The evidence shows that they planned ahead of time where they would enter the capitol, they organized how they would do it, and put the plans in ahead of time. They stated prior to doing it they were going to stop the certification of the election.

The statement from the FBI might not be as convincing if it were the only statement. But they are on video chanting they wanted to kill Pence, on video stating they would drag them through the streets, on video stating making threats. They showed a willingness to initiate and engage in violence, so them telling the FBI that isn't just an isolated statement. It follows the pattern established and planned ahead of time.

 

it got at least a little attention from the right:

‘Racial Justice’ Socialist Activist Quintez Brown Accused Of Attempted Murder, Shooting At Louisville Mayoral Candidate

https://www.dailywire.com/news/racial-justice-socialist-activist-quintez-brown-accused-of-attempted-murder-shooting-at-louisville-mayoral-candidate

I think that's a really hard case to compare to the others.

 

That's the one.

I just think that there is a lot of toxic politics going on right now. Our leaders are sharing their anger at one another, and the volume has been turned up the last few election cycles. That and the increase in mass shootings, and ultimately we're going to see a major assassinations or multiple ones happen soon.

At some point we need our leaders to lower the volume. The right will blame dems, and dems will blame the right, especially Trump. But ironically that blame game actually increases the level of toxicity and inspires others to take unlawful action.

Hyper-partisanship is unhealthy for a democracy.

 

no disagreement here

 

I'm just saying this is more commonplace than people acknowledge. The narrative that the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh is because of pro-choice protests is a massive stretch. So is the one that the media isn't reporting it.

 

Assume we can all agree on #1.

#2 is nothing anyone can know. We would have to take your word for it. If you were famous, I'm sure conspiracy theories, at least, might make claims about what went on in your house. Plotting a left wing coup with Ralph Nader in your basement, let's say.

#3 is an odd claim, based on #2, because I believe you're suggesting there was "any reason to protest or riot" inside a federal building where an above-board election was being certified. There was no fact-based or logical reason to protest that election result and certainly no justification for a riot or trespassing. Sure, march outside, support your candidate, and belly-ache, say Biden isn't your president, whatever, etc. But no reason to try to interrupt a key process of democracy.

So your home and the Capitol on Jan. 6 presumably have that in common -- no reason to protest, trespass, or riot. And if some group manufactured a Big Lie about your own home, using powerful and influential enough voices on Twitter, promising hordes of like-minded, angry people that "it will be wild," that they will uncover your plot with Ralph Nader and the final editing of a new Michael Moore movie, I'm sure they could end up with a riot there. I would never want to see that happen, and I never wanted to see January 6 happen either.

But anyway, the original analogy is sus b/c #1, as your home is nothing like a public building and you don't certify federal elections. But saying things like #2 is another quiet and artful way to normalize January 6, whether conscious or not. I don't think that will help us avoid such events in the future. The Big Lie is a big deal, and if we don't keep it's harm on the front burner, it will become the new normal and the slide away from any sort of democracy will continue, no matter who "wins."

 

I'm not famous though.

People make political protests, even based on clearly false claims. People protested Kyle Rittenhouse being acquitted because he was "getting away with murdering three black men." No matter what you think of the Rittenhouse verdict, he clearly didn't murder three black men. The accusation was that he murdered two white men and injured a third white man. I wouldn't say that the people protesting his getting away with three black men had no reason to do so, because that was their honestly held but erroneous belief.

We shouldn't have riots. I don't think there is strong evidence to support the claim that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. I think that most if not all of the January 6th rioters had a sincerely held belief that the election was stolen, which certainly is a reason to protest. The odds are someone is breaking into my home it is not a political protester with a sincerely held belief that I have subverted democracy, it is a tweaker trying to steal. I certainly don't like the notion that people cannot make opinion statements online (which is what "the Big Lie" is) and should be censored by the government.

They should radically change how they cover elections in this country, especially if we are going to keep widespread mail voting. The number one contributor to "The Big Lie" (in my opinion) is that on midnight on election night, Trump was up big, and then things reversed. I would prefer they not report results until certification. Just say the ballots are being counted and we don't want to give an erroneous impression based on partial reporting. If only the final totals were announced, I don't think the fraud narrative ever would have happened or taken root.

 

lol, when he gets to the voting booth, he will vote Trump and afterwards pretend he’s not a supporter like people do on here

 

Judge J. Michael Luttig (Wiki: was compared to Justice Scalia for his analytical rigor and for criticizing his colleagues for inconsistencies or embellishments in their judicial opinions and right-wing extremism. Luttig was among the leading feeder judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals, with more than 40 of his law clerksgoing on to clerk with conservativejustices on the Supreme Court.[14] Of those, 33 clerked for either Justice Thomas or Justice Scalia.[15] Luttig's clerks have nicknamed themselves "Luttigators".):

“The former president and his party are today a clear and present danger for American democracy,”

“To my knowledge, I’ve never spoken publicly a single word of politics,”

“I wanted to do this for America and I understood I had an obligation to do it for America. It was my ‘moment’ in my life to stand up, step forward, and bear witness to what I believe and what I do not believe.”

 

The bear spray shows intent. They knew what they were doing.

A friend of ours husband the day after showed me through his right wing Facebook groups how they had been trying to get him to go because he is an arms dealer who had access to all kinds of trinkets they could use that were not just AR15’s. A lot of those guys in those groups are ex military too.

Which leads me to believe also that Facebook isn’t cooperating much at all because I saw firsthand that this was the organization tool and the hub for these groups to form.

I mentioned this prior too but he also showed me that Trump himself wrote back an IM through Facebook that said “Jason you are a true patriot” after this guy tagged him in a message talking about how psyched he was to do whatever he was saying they’d do on 1/6. So if I personally have seen evidence that Trump knew and encouraged it and almost certainly helped plan it… he should be in jail. Hands down. No questions.

I don’t know why right wingers like OsTrig are fighting this so hard. Do they not realize if they do nothing Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will then be given the green light to do the same thing in January of 25 if they lose?? It’s so easy… throw Trump away and find someone else to run in 24. Wipe your hands clean and move on… but no… for whatever reason this one guy is just soooo important to them.

 

This is sobering, and one of the reasons I do think our democracy is in trouble @Os Trigonum as it appears Trump and his allies are planning to repeat 2020 where they use puppet election officials to override votes and outcomes to their favor and use whatever questionable tactics necessary to win. If they succeed, it will through this country into potentially a civil war.

Also a lot has been made of the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh, but I ask how much of these efforts were inspired by Jan 6th. When you read what Roske said when he turned himself in (which is rarely mentioned by the right wing media), he referenced making an attack on the Supreme Court itself.

 

"our democracy" is either resilient or fragile. I take it to be resilient and strong. It can survive the insults

 

If all it was facing were insults, I'd agree. But with all due respect my friend, I think you are being complacent in your faith. The system bent but did not break in 2020, but it will not survive a more powerful assault in 2024.

 

Very interesting about the organizing going on through Facebook. Stuff is crazy.

 

where is this more powerful assault coming from? serious question