Breaking 1-06-21: MAGA terrorist attack on Capitol

I guess it depends on downplaying. I agree the would-be assinaton attempt is newsworthy and should be marked as an area of concern. But it is a much smaller story with smaller actors and less threat.

Definitely a dangerous precedent. I am fine in arguing that it should be paid more attention to than it has been. But I don't think the most effective way to do that is to compare it to the Jan. 6th criminality.

You don't try and show how people are ignoring a bright LED light is by complaining how people talk more about the Sun.

 

Jan. 6 Panel Could Start Sharing Transcripts With Justice Dept. as Soon as July

Congressional Democrats, under pressure from federal prosecutors, say they will begin sharing interviews after their series of public hearings concludes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/us/politics/jan-6-committee-transcripts.html

 

Ginni Thomas: "I look forward to talking to them (Jan 6 committee)"

 

She's the kind of person that scares me the most and that both parties should be scared about.

Not an elected official but has ties to many. Borderline apocalyptic religious fervor.

 

The man who threatened to kill Kavanaugh surrendered before even getting onto Kavanaugh's property. Whereas on Jan. 6th rioters were in the Capitol and actively fighting with Capital PD to reach it.

Further Trump has said as recently as today that he if elected he will pardon rioters and said they did nothing wrong. While Schumer used some rough rhetoric I have yet to hear him say the would be assasin of Kavanaugh should be pardoned, or not charged, or that he is "loved".

USSC Justices deserve protection and that is why there is more security around the USSC. In size and scope though these aren't comparable.
If a bunch of rioters actively storm the USSC to stop them from issuing a ruling after a rally where they President tells them to go down to the USSC and then does nothign for hours then it would be.

 

For those still arguing that the rioters didnt' bring firearms to the Capitol another rioter pleaded guilty to bringing a firearm to the Capitol.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/17/politics/mark-mazza-capitol-riot/index.html
US Capitol rioter who carried weapon loaded with hollow-point bullets pleads guilty

CNN)A January 6, 2021, rioter pleaded guilty Friday to carrying a loaded firearm on US Capitol grounds and assaulting police officers with one of their own batons during the insurrection.

Mark Mazza, who told federal investigators he regretted not seeing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi during the riot and that they would "be here for another reason" if he had, faces a maximum of 20 years for assaulting officers with a dangerous weapon.

According to the plea agreement, Mazza, 57, carried a revolver loaded with shotgun and hollow-point rounds in a holster under his shirt during the "Stop the Steal" rally and on Capitol grounds that day.
Republican lawmakers and conservative allies have often falsely claimed that no weapons were brought to the Capitol to argue the attack was not the violent insurrection that it was.
More at link.

 

Trump called Pence a coward again at his latest rally, then went on with his blatant election lies as always. He went even further saying he might pardon the guys who stormed the Capitol if he becomes President again. He stabs the guy in the back who stood with him defending his BS for 4 long years, and turns on him with the blink of an eye the minute he won't help him steal and election.

If they don't throw a few felony charges on him after this investigation then they are not doing their jobs.

 

They have a limited amount of time to do so

Pardoning J6 people is no doubt going to be a litmus test during the primary

 

They don't care. They really don't. That's pretty damn obvious with the nonsense they say to scoff at it being a dangerous group if thugs and hate group radicals.

 

You can't believe a word out of Trump's mouth at any debate anyway. He blows out BS from his mouth. Just fake promises and blatant lies.

 

oh of course not. But him and his ilk putting it out there means any Republican who wants to win will talk about pardoning them. They'll probably also talk about putting Obama/Hilary/Biden on trial (without specifying why) abortion, and whether trans people should exist.

None will talk about boring things like policy or economics or how to fix inflation and that's okay. Their voters don't care about that. They want their theocracy and want to feel better than liberals.

 

So when I said some Proud Boys talking tough with an FBI informant, this is pretty much exactly that. You have no idea how many gang bangers I have heard talking a big game like this but doing nothing. It is especially bad when there is not even a recording of them saying this, just the witness statement that they said it. Were those their exact words? What was the tone? What was the tone of the conversation? If a Proud Boy says, "Man, did you see me in there. That cop hit me in the head with a baton and it did nothing. If I had gotten to Pence, I would have torn that traitors head off." I give it a lot less credence than if, prior to the event, he says, "If we spot Pence, you and Johnny engage the protective detail and try to create a gab, I'll move in and stab him with this ka-bar." So no, that is not proof to me that anyone was in actual danger (they did get within sight of members of Congress, after all).

Did they beat or kill anyone that was not actively engaged with them? There is quite a lot of video, can you post one of someone launching an attack against someone not engaged with them? I am not saying it is impossible, just that I have not seen evidence of these beatings of people and have seen videos of people not being beaten and just talking or walking away. The only actual videos I have seen (and I have seen hours of video, including a whole movie about how terrible the whole thing was) had cops engaged in very low grade mutual combat with rioters. Any rioter that attacked anyone should be charged. What I have not seen is any murderous violence (outside of the shooting of Babbitt).

I already posted above that a few people had firearms outside on "Capitol grounds" which is a large outdoor area around the buildings. This guy didn't have a gun inside. If you and a thousand friends were trying to overthrow the US government, how many firearms would you bring into the building with you? None? Four? Twenty? A thousand? Why is this "coup" or "insurrection" in the most heavily armed country on earth the most lightly armed to make an attempt?

 

Just curious if you had a firearm in your house and you had a mob of people breaking down windows into your house and crawling in, what would you personally do?

 

Probably depends on their skin color

 

So ignoring that the mob initiating violence with law enforcement, breaking windows and bashing down doors to ivade the buildings of congress, chanting hang Mike Pence while armed, and admitting that they would have killed Pence and other members of Congress isn't enough to convince you congressional members of congress were in danger.

Your position isn't really believable.

I don't know where the video is online, but I have seen televised video of doors being opened and the mob bashing spraying bear spray and swinging before any law enforcement engaged with them.

I've asked before... Do you have any video of law enforcement initiating or engaged in violence not within them legally performing their duty?

 

That is very speculative considering that it isn’t clear whether those rioters knew it was Pence they were close to or how long they were in close contact. What we do know in addition to the words of not just the informant but that there were people chanting “Hang Mike Pence!” And that people were willing to use violence to get to members of Congress that day.

You’ve brought up the BLM riots frequently. During those riots there were many instances of protesters not engaged in fighting with LE. There were people taking selfies with LEO and even hugging them. Under your reasoning then those riots weren’t really so bad.
Under your reasoning there would’ve been no violence or property destruction if MPD just allowed rioters to ransack the 3rd Precinct the first night and then let them ransack the other precincts the following night. If security personnel and others would’ve just let looters free reign in their businesses. Perhaps I and my neighbors had it wrong and we should’ve just let them loot and torch our neighborhood. Instead of going out and protecting it.

Again this is a bizarre argument. Shouldn’t it be if the rioters didn’t attack barriers or doors the LEO wouldn’t engage them or does agency only apply to the LE?

Sorry I forgot to post it but it sounds like he was intending to bring his weapons into the Capitol but had lost them when he was in the tunnel. Even so there is evidence of him engaging the Capitol PD.

Anyway this is just changing goal post. The Capitol grounds are part of the Capitol so yes people did bring firearms to the Capitol.

Also I don’t know if youre aware of this but in Minneapolis there was relatively little exchange of live fire by rioters or MPD during the George Floyd protest. So in your words this is the most heavily armed nation in the world and only one person died from gunfire in four days of rioting does that mean then that the George Floyd protests weren’t that violent?

 

Video of the mob breaking down doors is posted already on this thread and the LeO are responding to them breaking down barricades.

Stupidmoniker is making it seem like this was a peaceful March and the LEO went out of their way to attack them. On the videos and all the reposts are that LEO didn’t engage until the rioters were attacking the barriers.

It’s a even more bizarre argument to make considering he frequently argues that people like George Floyd and Philando Castile would be alive if they just complied. The Capitol PD gave many orders that the rioters didn’t comply with. Ashley Babbitt didn’t comply yet in this case it is the LEO who are fault and not the no compliant suspects

 

Its a lost cause. I try explaining this to my parents and family as well.

If there's one thing Ive learned its that my family hates cops; but they REALLY don't like black people and will side with cops over black people everytime.

 

Holy s***. If this isn’t the very definition of “cognitive dissonance”, I don’t know what is. You keep moving the goalposts to fit your narrative and it’s just factually incorrect. You speak of the Capitol Police as if they were the instigators. Why? Of course they were actively engaged with the traitors attacking the Capitol. THAT WAS THEIR F***ING JOB. Now it’s ok for citizens to attack police because they agree with you politically and believe the bull***t coming from your dear leader?

Cmon man.

 

Even scarier? There's probably more cops that support J6 than they're are who condemn it and honor that thin blue line they always whine about.

You're more likely to be killed as a pizza delivery boy or LGBT person than you are as a cop.

Also, remember when Giulani led a cop riot in the 90s? Where they called Mayor Dinkins a monkey and n*gger?

White suoremacy with a badge and god forbid you challenge God Lord Trump. Trump probably thought they'd let them through like most departments outside of DC would