Breaking 1-06-21: MAGA terrorist attack on Capitol

So caveat emptor?

In the case of Trump we have direct evidence he knew that there was no legal chance of overturning the election but he still solicited donations and even funneled those into his hotel company. If that’s not fraud I’m not sure what is. At the minimum this should be grounds for civil suits along the ones against his university and his foundation.

And yes those hucksters who were taking up the BLM mantle should be charged and or sued.

I’m on my phone but my understanding is there are several people around the Minneapolis riots who are receiving some severe sentences of many years for their actions.

Also as given the severity of the prosecutions you would understand the difficulties of collecting evidence identifying suspects and then dealing with pleas for such large events with suspects from around the country.

 

Both were bad and personally I was far more affected by the riots following the killing of George Floyd. That doesn’t mean that I downplay the severity of what happened Jan. 6th or cry about how severe the sentences of those arrested invading the Capitol are.

all of these people should be prosecuted. The “whataboutism” here is more relativism and deflection.

 

if "whataboutism" is in fact what's happening here in this thread, I think it's more about double standards than "whataboutism"

 

I’ll have to look into it when I have more time but my understanding is that many of those arrested for Jan 6 also have plead to much lesser charges too. My understanding is that most are being charged with trespassing.

These are large events involving different jurisdictions and different amounts of documentation. It shouldn’t be surprising then that there are different prosecutions.

 

to me, " 'all of the above' were serious riots" is pretty much the only defensible position if one values truth (as opposed to relativism) and consistency.

Otherwise folks are just beating their partisan dead horses as usual. Trump bad!! BLM good!! and vice versa

 

No matter how much property damage police protests caused, I still can't equivocate it with Jan 6th riots.

For one, the latter was purely influenced by a singular human who didn't want to be removed from power for pure selfish interests. The Jan 6th riots weren't a culmination of hundreds of years of grievances where underprivileged people with far less means feeling they have no hope believing lashing out with property damage because the courts, law enforcement and the government aren't on their side.

In fact many of the Jan 6th rioters were well off medium and small business owners who just were brainwashed through online propaganda headed by the former president.

Prosecute looters and people who commit property damage.

But equating the two as the same is like equating the Jan 6th violence with the the violence that happened in the revolutionary war. Obviously you find that violence more justified than the violence on Jan 6th.

The disconnect here is you believe that lack of proper representation for wealthy white slave owning colonists is justification for violence while the mechanisms that allowed this:

Isn't justification for violence.

The cause matters. Hence why you probably praise the violence that happened during the revolutionary war. So you do believe there is a time and place for violence for political causes.

 

I don't believe it's a question of "equivocation" (I take it you meant "equate"). No one is arguing that all of these riots are identical.

 

Yes you are arguing that they deserve equal condemnation. They don't. Just like the violence from the revolutionary war doesn't deserve equal condemnation compared to the Jan 6th riots.

Again, cause matters.

 

yes, pretty much

I understand that to be your position

now that statement just doesn't make sense

 

Wealthy white slave owning colonists believed they were grieved enough to commit violence. They believed they weren't represented in a fair manner by their government.

You praise that. You just don't have the empathy to understand the same for a group of people who have had billions of dollars of wealth and resources stolen from them through multiple centuries of not be represented properly. You can't give that to them. You can't understand why these sporadic riots happen and just bruh it off as "all the same".

For one it doesn't happen because a singular human who doesn't want to leave their position as president for pure self-interest. That's a start.

 

appreciate the diagnosis

 

I understand that it offends you but what else can I say to someone who probably celebrates a group of wealthy white slave owning men commiting violence because they believe they weren't properly represented but then sees something like this:https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/fiscal-facts/ff_detailed_5alt2.png
Which is a result of multiple centuries of another group of people not being properly represented while also being harassed by a paramilitary police state in their neighborhoods and equate violence that occurs from the to a group of people who stormed the capitol building to keep a single man in power for his own political and self-interest gain because he can't accept the results of an election?

 

doesn't offend me in the least. You seem unable to do anything apart from personalize these discussions to make it about the poster rather than the point a poster makes.

that's fine. I just don't have any interest in that

 

What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

 

From what I have read, they are dismissing charges against people on camera looting and burning. If they were only dismissing charges against people for whom there was not enough evidence, that would be one thing. That isn't the case.

I don't think there was any danger to Pence or any members of Congress. You can tell by the way that not a single one of them was even injured, let alone killed. There have been lots of chants about killing the police, but then there is follow-up where police officers are actually killed. The only members of Congress actually attacked in recent memory were the people at the softball game where Steve Scalise was shot. I don't see any difference in kind between riots to subvert government at a local, state, or federal level. Whether you are rioting in opposition to the police arresting or shooting someone that you think was illegally arrested or shot or rioting in opposition to the transfer of the presidency to someone that you think was illegally elected.

 

I don't agree with you. They escaped out of there before the thugs got to them. You didn't know that? Hard to hurt them if they don't get to them before they escaped. Now, if those thugs had broken into the room where they were and didn't touch them you would have a valid point.

If I was on a jury with you as their defense attorney I would have a hard time not rolling my eyes at your speculation and assessment.

 

They all count. But the deaths caused by right wingers even at a BLM protest don't support the idea that people are over-emphasisng violence from the right wing while ignoring violence from left-leaning groups.

 

That was do in large part to the work of the law enforcement and security personnel on the scene.

The same law enforcement that were being attacked and brutally beaten and assaulted by the group of people who trying to get inside congress so that once they were there they wouldn't put any members of congress in danger of being hurt or killed according to you.

So the crowd was willing to attack, stomp, club, spray, and beat law enforcement officers, break through windows and barricades all so they could inside and not endanger Pence, or any members of congress?

 

I really don't understand how you "equate" trying to overturn democracy in a violent manner to a protest that turned violent. It's obviously different in how violence was used in each instance.

 

They weren't injured because they got out and were protected by the Capitol Police and Secret Service. You can't say with any certainty what might've happened had the insurrectionists/traitors actually gotten their hands on Pence or anyone else.