Clearly ahead of Durant, even though Durant was the clear playoffs and Finals MVP of each of their championship runs? I don't think I agree with that. Giannis has been too good the last 5 years. Robertson -- maybe, but probably not IMO. As for the rest, personally it's kind of a toss up for me. Other names I missed are Julius Erving and Elgin Baylor. Probably there are more who should be in the conversation. Dwyane Wade, Jokic, Nowitzki.
If you ignore defense, sure (on the bolded). We did just see Curry go lotto last year. Some of the bolded players and those I consider better in general could excel on many other types of teams because they impact the game both ways. Every big I bolded would win a title with every team Curry won with, because all of those teams had shooting and wing defenders. Magic and Shaq are really the only arguable top 10 players that didn't have tremendous impact both ways, and even Magic was a walking triple option (scoring, rebounding, playmaking).
Durant joined Curry to win a title....after Curry and the Warriors eliminated Durant's Thunder team. Plus, Curry has more titles and MVP's than Durant. So yeah, I think Curry is clearly ahead of Durant. Robertson has one title and one MVP. Why would you place him ahead of Curry? Why would you place any of those guys ahead of Curry?
I don't ignore defense; I just value winning more. Curry's offense more than makes up for any perceived defensive deficiency. Their first title team didn't have great shooting. In general though, this is a weird argument. You're punishing Curry for other players wanting to play with him.
GS begged Durant to join the Warriors (literally their entire core), after the Warriors realized they couldn't beat LeBron unless he was playing with bums. The Warriors team did beat the less talented Thunder team. KD watched Klay drop 41 on them to keep their season alive. The same Klay that Curry went two straight lotto seasons without. KD realized the GS core that was begging him to come, that recruited him all season, was a more talented team than the one he was. Durant joined that core to win a title. Again, when that core wasn't available, Curry went lotto.
I guess Durant realized that it was unlikely he would lead any team past GSW in the playoffs. Was that the game where Curry almost had a 30+ pt triple double? Intellectual dishonesty at it's finest. Unsurprising. You should hold yourself to a higher standard.
Curry's limitations on defense don't matter because he's surrounded by multiple elite wing defenders, which is a rarity. I value winning too, which is why I note not a one of those bigs would lose on a team with great shooting and multiple legit wing defenders. Additionally, looking at Curry this year and last clearly shows how much talented teammates contribute to winning. Curry was elite last year in the lotto, right? If you are going to give him all the credit in wins then stay consistent and give him all the blame when he goes lotto. But oh...you recognize the "team" then. Hmmm..... I'm not punishing him by recognizing other players who were great both ways would also likely win titles on those teams. Are you honestly saying you don't think Moses, KG and Giannis would win on a team with Klay (GREAT shooting), Draymond, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Livingston and Barbosa??? And as far as others wanting to play with "him", KD wanted to play with that core. That core was drafted and given the most $$ allowed to stay.
I can agree that Durant didn't think he would beat the GS core that was begging him to come (Curry included) and chose an easier path to a title. He knew no one could challenge them with him and was right. I mean, that was essentially the pitch. Yup. No one is arguing that Curry wasn't the primary player or that he played poorly. We are talking about support. We have clear examples of how Curry fares when that support isn't there. Facts, at it's finest. GS has been winning titles with more talent than the comp. In title1 they had more talent than everyone else due to injuries. They blew it in season 2 with more talent. The solution was to go get even more talent by adding Durant (who came for the core, not Curry). Yes, hold yourself to a higher standard and miss us with all the revisionist history.
Is it a rarity? That's what we had with Harden. Last year's Warriors had the 8th best record in the conference. Any year before that, and they would've been in the playoffs. But let's not forget that Oubre literally had a negative impact last year. Do you really think 1 great shooting teammate creates a great shooting supporting cast? And yes, you are punishing Curry.
Yep, just like with every other star in NBA history. No one does it alone. Can you provide an instance of my "revisionist" history? B/c I can provide a clear example of your intellectual dishonesty: You forgot to note that Curry played 5 games in the 2020 season.
Funny that he has performed probably his 2nd best carry job of his postseason career this year when their team salary has never been higher. Top 4 on the Warriors making more than all but 7 teams this season. One day I pray TF can/will spend this kinda money.
the warriors are paying close to 350 million this year just on players. By far the highest in the nba, tilman will never do that
Yes, 3 All D type wing defending teammates is a rarity (Klay, Iggy, Dray...all NBA level defenders), plus Barnes. No, Harden never had that. And that's not even mentioning the other quality wing defenders with size that weren't elite. But feel free to list the teams in league history that did. It shouldn't be hard since it's not rare, right? Last years Warriors went lotto, which "coincidentally" coincided when the other core members that KD came for weren't there. Again, stay consistent. If you can't recognize the great help when he won titles then I don't went to hear about the surrounding talent in a lotto season. If it's about him then it's about him. I think two distance 40% shooting teammates, another one that shoots in the 38% range and a small ball C that can hit enough to stretch the floor (Green) is a great shooting cast to surround a big with, especially the likes of KG, Moses and Giannis. Again I ask, are you on record that you don't think those 3 bigs would win surrounded by Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Livingston and Barbosa??? Please explain how recognizing the two way skills of others is punishing Curry? Make it make sense. You claim KD came to join Curry when he came to join a core of GS players, in a world where all of them were pitching him and pitched him all season? And then accuse others of intellectual dishonesty. That's cute. Durability goes into being considered an all-time great. It really matters more when you don't have a stacked team to rely on like some have been blessed with. Kinda hard to dominate when you can't stay on the court, right? But let's be clear. Again I ask, are you on record that you don't think those 3 bigs (KG, Moses, Giannis) would win surrounded by Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Livingston and Barbosa?
We had Beverley, Ariza, and Dwight. And later, we had CP3, Ariza, and PJ Tucker. Look at this year's Heat team. Butler, PJ Tucker, Oladipo, and Bam. It also coincided with the first ever "play-in" tournament. Without the play-in tournament, the Warriors would've been the 8th seed. You're significantly overrating Draymond Green's ability to shoot. He had one outlier year. Who knows if he could've replicated it w/o Curry? Who are the 40% shooting teammates? Klay and? Correct, I don't think that Moses, KG, or Giannis could win with a supporting cast of Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Livingston, and Barbosa. I don't understand your logic at all. That supporting cast was built around Curry's unique talents. Do you really think that players can be so easily swapped? Let's look at Giannis since he's the best ball-handler in that group. Who would your starting 5 be? How would they generate offense? Giannis can't pass like Draymond so the ball would need to be in Draymond's hands? Then what's Giannis doing? In late shot clock situations, the Bucks rely on Middleton or Holiday to create for themselves. In your lineup, who will fill that role? You're punishing Curry by failing to acknowledge that Durant WANTED to play with Curry. It's like when Harden fans say "if Harden and Curry swapped places, then Harden would have 3 rings". They failed to understand that Durant wanted to play in the Curry-centric offense. It was a Curry-centric offense. By far, Curry was the most important player in the offense, and it only worked b/c of Curry. So yes, KD came to join Curry. That's not intellectually dishonest at all. Doesn't change the fact that you were intellectually dishonest about his role in the Warriors being a lottery team. Those teams wouldn't come close to winning a title. There's all sorts of holes.
Howard is a wing? Ariza made an all-D team...when? When did Tucker make one? Bam is a wing? Did you really mention Oladipo last year? And you are calling others intellectually dishonest? If there is no play in tournament then we have no idea which team is in the 8th seed because they couldn't still get a chance to play by finishing lower. What we do know is Curry lost his core and went lotto. This is factual. Nothing else really needs to be said. Thats quite laughable. But at least you are on record so others can know ow seriously to take your comments on this topic. Yes, when you have elite bigs that are dominant on both ends, it really is easy with a talented core like the one I just mentioned. Durant wanted to play with a stacked Warriors team. It wasn't about Curry. It was about the collective. KD came to join a very talented Warriors squad. It's as intellectually dishonest as one can be. No. They did not qualify to make the playoffs. With Curry...when he didn't have the rest of the core. Factual. You are trying to excuse it. Curry had a chance to get his team, without that core, into the playoffs and failed.
Was waiting for this thread to get bumped. Proving delusional Harden homers wrong has to be the best thing on the internet. This GSW team is by far the least talented of the Curry era. There isn’t even an argument anymore. Might as well put this here, not gonna @ anybody, but I was guaranteed multiple Bkn championships after Harden was initially traded. Yes, I’m scoreboarding. Do the MATH
Being able to hold a core together is called leadership and should account for a lot when you evaluate somebody in team sport. You can't simply substitute players and say they would've won on some hypothetical team simply because they may not have what it takes to be the leader of that team. For instance, KD was never a leader of GS even if he had the fMVP and it was Curry's leadership skills that even made it possible for KD to join in the first place. Lots of stars recruit other stars - it takes skill to do. Kyrie has that skill (although he is crazy inconsistent and thus the skill is useless in long run). LeBron. As we've seen ourselves here maintaining a core is hard and interpersonal relationships matter a whole lot. Can't simply substitute players onto a team hypothetically. Leadership counts for a lot in winning.
Yes, you're intellectually dishonest. Your original quote was for elite wing defenders. You've now shifted the goal post to all-D team. Oladipo was an all-defensive 1st teamers in 2018. He's 29 years old. Would you really not consider him an elite wing defender? Do you think he's lost that much athleticism in 4 years? The Warriors had the 8th best record in the conference in 2021. Why wouldn't it be fair to assume they'd be the 8th seed absent the play-in tournament? When did Garnett win a title? When he had Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. When did Giannis win a title? When he had Middleton and Jrue Holiday. Do you see a trend? If you swap Curry with prime Garnett or current Giannis, who on the Warriors can you consistently rely on to create their own shot? What role will Draymond Green have? The Bucks use 3pt shooting centers (Lopez/Portis) which Draymond Green isn't. So you can't give Draymond the ball b/c Giannis/Garnett need the ball. And you can't hide him at the 3pt line. So what'll you do with him? Who would be the primary ball-handler? I look forward to your explanation.
