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Jonathan Givony, Bobby Marks on draft and rumors

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, May 31, 2022.

  1. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

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    Rockets defense in 18 was so freaking good. They really locked GSW down after they got settled in. I would have loved to see a healhy luc in that series. He was a big player for us pre injury.
     
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  2. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    So you found a few more outliers and declared a victory???

    Context matters.

    GSW was coming off a championship and conserving themselves on defense in regular season. But still 11th best defense.

    Both Rockets teams turned it up in postseason and also ran a gauntlet of the greatest teams in their era.

    San Antonio played a much less talented Cavs team.

    Any GM or NBA historian will tell you that having a top 10 offense AND defense in the postseason is more a necessity than a luxury.

    Postseason advantages:
    *All Time great (or three) on roster
    *Top 5 Net Rating
    *Top 10 ORTG and DRTG
    *Being #1 or #2 on one side of ball
    *Easy or lucky (no injuries/opposing teams injured) path

    https://www.denverstiffs.com/2020/3/30/21199077/stat-of-the-week-how-champions-are-built-in-the-nba

    Outliers happen.

    https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/5-nba-teams-won-championship-weak-defense

     
    #222 D-rock, Jun 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
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  3. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    What identity did D'Antoni give Rockets?

    Seriously?

    Please don't respond to me anymore.

     
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  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    GSW is #6 Defense in postseason.

    https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?dir=-1&sort=DEF_RATING&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs

    And GSW was also #2 in DRTG in regular season.

    Defense just gets ramped up in postseason.

    And no one claimed that Celts would sweep GSW who has #1 rated offense.

    https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/def...TING&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season

     
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  5. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    It was all Olajuwon, if he had an injury during the Playoffs, it was more likely than not very much over.

    The Bulls actually made the Playoffs without MJ. Sort of semi competitive even.

    Teambuilding and depth are very interesting these days.
     
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  6. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    The Irresistible Force paradox.

    I believe elite offense beats elite defense. I also believe that teams need a BALANCE of both to win championships, but when condensed down to one moment, one play give me the bad ass shot takers and shot makers.
     
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  7. Ekiu

    Ekiu Member

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    -_- it's not about "victory" Your statements were dripping in hyperbole.

    First you write there was not a team in NBA history that has won the championship without being top 10 off/def. Then it was only 3 teams... This is after I already mentioned 03-04 Pistons being in bottom half of league offensively.

    I stopped at '93 Rockets but if you go back there are teams in EVERY decade.

    Sure Bill Russell Celtics were ranked 9th offensively....but there were only 9 teams!

    Russell's teams NEVER finished in the top 1/3 of the league. That's 11 championship teams.

    Second bad boy Pistons were not top 66.6% offensively.

    Multiple showtime Lakers teams did not finish top 1/3 defensively.

    Supersonics.
    Late 60s Knicks
    Hondo Celtics

    I mean there or PLENTY of teams. I didn't go through every year and we are already at 25 teams in the 75 NBA years that were NOT too 10(top 1/3 of the league)

    It's FAR rarer to see a team win it all as the #1 ranked team in both off/def.


    Yes when the legacy of the the D'antoni years is the switch defense. You give credit to Bzdelik... D'antoni didn't even get to pick his coaching staff, Morey did that.

    Rockets offense was just ISO ball... give the ball to Harden/Lou Will/Gordon/CP3/Westbrook and get out the way.
     
  8. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    D'Antoni signed off on Bzdelik's switch defense as HC.

    Morey didn't GM without input by both D'Antoni and Harden.

    Morey was a synergistic GM who valued input from many sources, especially his analytics team.

    And it was D'Antoni who took over the switch defense the last season Rockets were a top 10 postseason defense.

    Again, with input from his players.

     
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  9. Ekiu

    Ekiu Member

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    https://www.thedreamshake.com/2016/5/26/11792032/rockets-mike-dantoni-nba-coaching-rumors

    Bzdelik, D'antoni & Roy Rodgers all interviewed around the same time. Looks like Bzdelik interviewed before D'antoni... So he obviously didn't sit in on the interview. Doesn't sound like Mike had a choice.

    The only year the Rockets defense was top 10 was that 17-18 season. The following year Bzdelik left, we all assumed it was because of of Carmelo. The rockets waived Melo and Bzdelik was back.

    That team finished mid if the league and Morey didn't bring Bzdelik. '19-'20 the defense was again mediocre and OKC pushed us before the Lakers destroyed us in Playoffs.

    I know you already know all of this... I just don't understand they D'antoni hype when we had one great defensive year and we just carried by great players in Harden, CP3 & Ego.

    They were great well before Mike. Mike was a game manager and he blew a 3-2 lead versus a beatable GSW.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The decision to hire MDA was made by Alexander.

    MDA and Alexander spoke before Morey was involved in discussions.

    Alexander wanted MDA for years.

    Morey liked Silas.

    Alexander was close to choosing MDA when Morey countered with Silas and Hollins.


    Alexander choose MDA and the idea was to surround MDA with a very strong coaching staff.

    Bzdelik is someone that they had interviewed as a possible head coach.

    MDA and Morey both were on board with Bzdelik.

    MDA already wanted a switch heavy scheme based on the roster.

    Bzdelik looked great when he has Paul, Tucker, Ariza and Luc to switch with.

    He then left over a financial issue and family issues.

    Turner was named to lead the defense and did a poor job.

    MDA increased his influence on the defense and ownership paid Bzdelik what he wanted to come back (TF was not happy about it).

    Bzdelik did a lot of the day to day stuff defensively, but MDA was heavily involved. He also worked with Bzdelik to tweak the defense.

    Bzdelik had a really bad playoff run his last year in Houston as he didn't make adjustments.

    The Rockets had arguably the best defense in the NBA before they lost Ariza and Luc and Paul was injured.

    I am not saying MDA is the greatest coach to ever live, and I was not in favor of when he was hired.

    BUT his contributions defensively in Houston and NJ and PHX have largely been unfairly marginalized. He did work on that side of the ball, and he was able to make solid adjustments, especially as he aged as a coach.

    Offensively he is probably the greatest coach in several generations.

    He doesn't have a title but he deserves to be in the HOF.

    He has developed multiple different offenses that have been incredibly successful and he was an early believer in switching defenses. His protege also ran his system in Golden State when they won (Gentry).

    There is a lot of luck involved in winning titles, especially in a league of dynasties like the NBA.

    MDA is certainly good enough to have won titles.

    As I said, he isn't perfect... early in his career he diverted blame on to players or coaches... he sometimes wasn't as prepared as Popvich was.... he didn't always call the best timeouts either. However, he always got the most out of what he had....... and his best teams ran into dynasties with Shaq/Kobe, Duncan/Ginobili/Parker and Curry/Thompson/KD/Green.
     
  11. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    The switch defense was not instituted during Bzdelik's interview with Morey.

    Bzdelik did not run strictly switch defense with Nuggets or any of his college stops.

    Going strictly to switch defense was developed over the 1st season after much analysis, discussions and direction by Morey and D'Antoni with goal to defeat GSW. Becoming proficient in this defense in regular season was entirely in preparation for postseason.

    Then after Bzdelik departure Rockets went to a hybrid defense under new defensive assistant Turner. However defense failed miserably and Turner influence increasingly decreased. And right before the bubble, in the same Covid shortened season, Rockets traded for RoCo then reverted back to their old switch defense.

    Rockets went on to become the #1 ranked defense in the bubble and postseason.

    A defense that D'Antoni re-implemented without Bzdelik.

    https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/20...-rockets-rank-no-1-in-nba-in-playoff-defense/



    Oh, the beatable GSW crack made me laugh.

    I agree that only Rockets had any chance in all of NBA of beating that GSW team but the cavalier off handed even disdainful manner you prefaced that was hilarious.

     
    #231 D-rock, Jun 8, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
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  12. Ekiu

    Ekiu Member

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    That is against OKC, who took the them 7.
    Against the Lakers their Def rating was 114...

    Not sure how you took that statement as cavalier.

    Rockets were the first team in league history to blow two double digit leads in consecutive close out games. I believe Minny joined them this year, which is suiting.

    Laugh at that. -_-

    You had the GM and Coach saying the same thing, half the players. By the numbers that was the worst of the GSW teams.

    Let's forget game 6... Game 7 Klay had like 3/4 fouls before the half. And the Rockets for some reason continued to shoot over half of
    their shots from 3... unassisted 3 point attempts.

    It wasn't until Ego in the fourth before the Rockets really started attacking the rim.


    Then after all of this Morey comes out and says "We should have won"... Yea drock that GSW team was beatable.
     
  13. Ekiu

    Ekiu Member

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    @Nook thanks for that.

    Now I understood people are saying D'antoni signed off on the hire of Bzdelik. Obviously he was ok with it he took the job. Is it typical for teams to choose a HC staff? Especially, a HoFers?

    I know the Lakers did it to Vogel, but with Darvin Ham he has full autonomy.

    In D'antoni's entire career the '17-18 Rockets were the only above average defense he coach. Sure he is a HoFer much like Rivers I can't think of any other coaches who get the opportunities to coach the amount of top level talent as those two and continually fall short.

    In regards to Gentry... Isn't he associated with the Spurs tree? At anyrate sure the GSW took alot of 3s and played at a fast pace but they did that under Jackson as well.

    Kerr took them next level taking the ball out of Curry's hands, letting him run off screens/set screens, initiating offense through Bogut/Green at the high posts.

    Kerr has been open in crediting influence of the triangle and Spurs movement(Kerr/Walton/Gentry).

    Obviously Pop took elements of 7 seconds or less team, improved it and won.
     
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  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Head coaches used to have say over their coaching staffs, but that has quickly diminished over time and at this point almost every front office has some degree of input over the assistants. There are a few head coaches with the power to demand they have final say, but not many.

    As for Ham, it is reported that he has complete control.... but that is largely being done as damage control after the front office for the Lakers had an unhealthy amount of control over Vogel.

    I don't just look at DRTG as a measure, because when a team puts in a lot of effort on the other side of the ball, it influences the ratings. I look at net ratings a lot of time. While pace is accounted for in a lot of the newer statistics, it doesn't really account for effort.

    Also the Rockets were dealing with injuries (Paul) and defections (Ariza/Luc) that impacted their defense.

    In the past I have been very critical of MDA as a coach, especially on the defensive side. I no longer feel that way when it comes to defense. He isn't Thibs or Spolstra on that side of the ball, and it isn't the identity of the team - but he isn't really bad at it. He also is willing to let an outside voice come in and I think he deserves credit for that.

    MDA had the Warriors beat before Paul was injured...... he lost to a great dynasty.

    In Phoenix he lost to dynasties in LA and SA.....

    I don't think he had the best talent in any of those years honestly.

    With the Rockets he got to at least the semi's each year.

    I'm not saying that he is without flaws..... however, if he were the coach of the Warriors, do you believe they would be any less successful? I don't think so.... a lot of getting over the hump and actually winning the title is having the best team. Adelman was a very very good coach as well and he didn't win a title...... just a lot goes into it all.

    Gentry designed and ran the offense in Golden State. When the Warriors won the title, Gentry after the game gave credit to D'Antoni. The offense that the Warriors ran, and at this point most of the NBA all can be traced back to D'Antoni.

    The seven seconds or less, the multiple ball handlers, the positionless basketball - it all goes back to D'Antoni.

    Minutes after the Warriors won the NBA title..... Gentry immediately credited MDA for the Warriors offense....... "Tell Mike D'Antoni he is vindicated. We just kicked everyone's ass playing the way everyone complained about."

    Steve Kerr also gave credit to D'Antoni after the Warriors won their first title.....



    Kerr has said that the Spurs emulated MDA, the spacing and movement came from D'Antoni.
     
  15. Rockets34Legend

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  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I think you are being too hard on MDA.

    He played game 6/7 without Chris Paul or Moute.... the Rockets second best player was Eric Gordon, who is at best an average NBA starter.

    The Warriors had: Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green.

    The Rockets likely win that series at the title if Paul doesn't get hurt..... but the Warriors were more talented going into that series and in games 6 and 7 it wasn't even close.

    The Rockets lost to a better (after Paul was hurt) and more talented Warriors team.
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Not surprising.

    The Kings owner fluctuates by the hour on what he wants his team to do.
     
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  18. hakeemthagreat

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    I'd be alarmed if we took him in any scenario
     
  19. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    he definitely won't
     
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  20. Houston77

    Houston77 COOKIES AND CAKE, MY TEAM BAKED!
    Supporting Member

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    Wall + Wood = Win, Blazers and Kings.
     
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