What double talk. Everything I have said about Banchero and the others has been the same. Now you are just mad libbing. I never said Chet is not better I just don't think he is a real difference maker and can be exploited in switches, why is it all or nothing with you? And why do you start feeling some kind of way just because somebody is challenging your beliefs isn't that how you get good discussions? Maybe you just don't want discussion and want everybody to agree with you? Calm down my guy.
I think Jabari makes perfect sense for Orlando. They need to turn it around and they have invested a lot into pieces that make Paolo’s skill set redundant. They need to see what they have in Suggs specifically and Cole and Fultz. Having a front court of Franz, Jabari and Isaac is about elite of a front court as you can have defensively. The magic are also in desperate need of shooting. Jabari is the safest pick and still has tremendous upside. That’s why if I was a GM for Orlando I wouldn’t pass on him. Especially if my job was on the line. Chet has the highest ceiling in the entire draft. If the thunder stay at 2 I see them swinging for the fences. There is certainly a case for all these guys. The only reason Paolo looks like he’s #1 on clutchfans is because the way you win arguments here is by simply typing more words than anyone else. Just because I’ve said a lot doesn’t make me right about anything.
It's crazy that most people think Wiggins has been a bust yet Smith skillset tops out at being Wiggins and that's if he ever develops a dribble-drive game. So the question is would people be happy getting a lesser Wiggins in this draft. What does Smith do better than Wiggins except 3-point shooting and Smith is not that much better Wiggins has been a 40% shooter the last 2 years.
But wouldn't Paolo be THE alpha on Magic? He should be better playmaker than Cole, Fultz or the disappointing Suggs. And if Magic are struggling with scoring then the best 3 level scorer is Paolo, per CF. And defensively, Paolo is underrated and just as good if not better (when engaged) than Jabari. And 6'9 Chuma Okeke is already the stretch 4 or 3-D forward on their team, wouldn't Jabari be duplicating the same role? Not seeing Jabari start over healthy Isaac or Chet starting over Carter, at least immediately. But Paolo brings an entirely different skillset at 4 spot not already available on very young, very deep and talented Magic roster. Why don't the Magic see all this? Thunder as well.
I can completely see your point. Its just for years now we've based projections for prospects in part on how they have performed in the past. Plenty of college athletes take over the NCAA and after getting draft are out of the league in 2-3 years. Still, I want more than speculation from the #1 pick in terms of his upside to be that kind of player. If he's disappearing in college I think it would logically make it harder for him to somehow excel in those same situations in the NBA and it is worth bringing up. And if that's not his role, I have a hard time taking that at #1. I've never been told so many times that the stats dont matter or that how a player has played up until this point doesn't matter. If we are going purely based on projecting what a player could be given his skill set, why not take Nikola Jovic or Ousmane Dieng #1 overall?
Dude you don't know who teams have ranked over each other, you are just going by dudes with Twitter accounts. You do know that teams give out disinformation at this point in the draft hoping the guy they really want will drop. Cade was not consensus #1 there was talk of The Pistons wanting Mobley leading up to the draft. https://pistonpowered.com/2021/06/13/nba-draft-pistons-green-mobley/ https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/20...king-evan-mobley-of-usc-trojans-at-1-overall/ https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/20/nba-mock-draft-cade-cunningham-evan-mobley-jalen-green
We did just see someone go #1 a year ago who disappeared a ton at Oklahoma State. The year before the #1 pick wasn't even doing much winning at Georgia
LOL Only the simple minded didn't believe Cade was not going #1 overall to Detroit last draft. Thanks for confirming my hunch.
Why does Chet have the highest ceiling? Why is his ceiling higher than Banchero? Because he is taller? What can Holmgren do that Banchero can't shot block? Is Banchero #1 on clutchfans? It seems he is the consensus 3rd guy.
Yes Cade was clearly going to be the #1 pick from day 1. folks who actually followed these prospects and college on a consistent basis knew that. Another thing folks take too literally is all these silly write ups and mock drafts from randoms and attribute that to being legitimate resources. They're not. Anyone on this board can make up the same draft board as they do. They just won't get paid for it, that's the only difference.
This is the time of year where one should definitely be wary of the "he's not so bad at such and such skill, let me show you some highlights and advanced stats!" I've seen a few people say Jabari isn't "that bad" at dribbling/creation with a couple of clips of him actually doing it... especially the ones that then compare it to Kawhi and are like "SEE!!!". Man, I DEFINITELY do not think Jabari is going to all of a sudden develop a handle and drive game, and similarly I definitely don't think Paolo is going to all of a sudden become Chet/Jabari-like on defense. My personal ranking is: 1 - Chet 2 - Paolo 3 - Jabari But that's because i like to swing for the fences, and think Paolo is the higher ceiling. I'm fine if Jabari is the peak, given the higher floor. But I'm definitely not expecting either to fix their weaknesses overnight.
Jabari’s triple threat dribble & footwork can be improved upon. Hell Kawhi’s wasn’t great when he came in and his shot was beyond mediocre. It can be improved over time. You’ll have to be patient though.
Everything CAN be improved upon, but for every Kawhi there's 4 guys who never improve. Truth be told, i have NO CLUE how to determine which guy is more like Kawhi and which guy is more like the dude's that don't get amazingly better. And even that said, i don't get the concept that seems to be floating around that Jabari is more likely to improve on his weaknesses then Paolo. The obvious and immediate answer to someone going from almost no handle/dribble-drive ability to being very good at it is Kawhi. Who else is there? I've heard OG Anunoby maybe? There's lots of players that have gotten better at shooting - NOT all players. There are lots that have gotten better at defense. But truly, I have no idea.
The difference is, Cade was a known commodity for many many years before he entered college. He had a proven track record before he committed to Oklahoma State and had been considered a generational talent for some time and with good reason. Cade absolutely dominated the high school scene and he was a very good quarterback just like Paolo. Everyone could see from eye test alone that he had great potential as a playmaker not only from his high school tape but because he consistently displayed the vision and feel for the game in college. He chose to be the man for a bad team and his team simply could not make shots. I really believe if pundits were convinced he couldn't be a lead play initiator that he would not have gone ahead of Green or Mobley. Like Jabari, scouts knew they were getting a guy who plays defense and shoots at a high clip. He still scored more points per game on a better efficiency than Jabari. Its not like Cade was a slouch from 3 in college. He was a 40% shooter from 3. If you can get that high level shooter and defender who is also a guy who can run your offense it is well worth the #1 pick. Especially considering he was able to score more points on a better efficiency than Jabari. If you consider one guy generated that offense for himself and still was a better scorer and more efficient, I'd say there was less off a need to project if he could create his own shot in the NBA. Also despite his low playmaking numbers there was at least a very strong case to be made that you could run your offense through him and that is absolutely worth gambling on at #1. The problem with Jabari for me is that there is a tremendous amount of speculation and I have yet to see any footage that tells me he can grow into some of those things. A lot of those things are the hardest things to grow into at the NBA level and generally players who do grow into those things have shown flashes in lower levels of competition. If I'm going to speculate about how someone grows into a role at the NBA level, I'd like to see at least an example of them doing it in some capacity. Cade, Chet and Paolo had separated themselves as elite prospects well before their college careers. I know a lot has to do with what have you done for me lately and Jabari's year in college was good. However, he still wasn't very efficient compared to those other prospects in college and I would argue he showed the most holes in his game that are hardest to remedy. I still believe he has the highest floor and is the most immediate impact guy. He offers the most versatility in what you can build around him. I just can't think of a #1 pick that had such a limited skillset with little to no tape to convince me otherwise. Anything more than that is just speculation. Your reference to Ant Edwards is a good one. In college he was even less efficient than Jabari. However much like Paolo, his high school tape shows flashes of who he is today as he was the #1 ranked player out of high school. Jabari had a meteoric rise to the top in very little time and considering his stats were mediocre at best for the year and that he disappeared in the biggest moments, I'm not sure that that one year is really enough to convince me he's worthy of the first overall selection. We can't rely on this one year that propelled his draft stock and not consider everything that happened in that year. Good and Bad. Was his year so much better than the other two that it made up for the high school seedings of Chet and Paolo as the clear top players in the class? It's just incredibly hard to make that argument however you slice it. Chet and Paolo were more efficient and showed me they both can do more overall. I just can't understand the logic but I'm probably missing something here. Much like this draft class, the Anthony Edwards draft was supposed to be very weak at the top. We got Ant at #1 and Lamelo at #3. For that reason I never really buy into that narrative and especially in this case when Chet and Paolo have been hyped for years now. Jabari wasn't even in the conversation 1 year ago and I'm not sure his college resume is enough to change years of basketball before that. All 3 of these guys were good in college. High School, College, stats, winning and losing, it all matters I think. I'd prefer to shoot for a superstar even if he busts rather than taking a very good player and speculating that he corrects his flaws at a higher level of competition. If a player can show me he's a star at every level of competition its a good start.
Kawhi came in as a poor shooter and become an elite shooter because its a skill that is easier developed with work ethic. His playmaking never really got better. Kawhi was drafted in part because he's an elite slasher. Part of what made him a great slasher was his ball handling which he's improved over the years. I can't compare an elite slasher to a 6'10 guy that scored 12% of his points at the rim. That component of Kawhi's game opens a lot for him and I haven't seen any flashes of that from Jabari. Jabari could be a better Jerami Grant on offense considering how they have similar scoring ability out of triple threat and they use only a few dribbles to get to their spots. They both like to score from 3 and midrange as creators and off ball. If he's that on offense, no reason he couldn't become a 25ppg scorer and a star. Or he could be Mikal Bridges and be perpetually in the conversation for DPOY while shooting over 40% from 3 without creating much for himself. Both of those players are great players but I'm not sold thats enough upside for the #1 pick partially because its a ton of speculation. At least those are some paths he could conceivably get to I guess. Jerami Grant is an example of a guy who learned a lot of these skills as he progressed in the league and he became an all star. Still, what he does on offense overall is limited. Expecting Jabari to be DPOY or Klay Thompson is a really tough task because if he's neither of those things people are going to be kind of disappointed in drafting a role player #1. I think the defense and shooting are legit but I'd like to see better efficiency and a more well rounded understanding of the game before selecting him over those other guys. I'd rather someone who at least displays ability to take over games or someone you can run your offense through. Those types of players have historically always gone #1.
