Play style yes, athletic is just wrong. Blake couldn’t get off the ground at all, how many dunks did he have as a piston? 19 year body who plays like a 30 year old Blake Griffin. How can that be bad?
He showed he could still get off ground with Nets, but as primary facillitator he focused on playmaking and scoring with Pistons. But I'll give you the athleticism, Banchero should be more explosive.
Or unless he really, really doesn't want to spend his life as a young man in a wasteland like Oklahoma City. Also, living near Seattle for the last decade, I can tell you that the hatred among former Sonics fans still burns white-hot for the organization that repeatedly and shamelessly lied to the entire city while stealing their franchise out from under them. Facilitating the theft behind the scenes proved to be one of the worst acts of David Stern's entire career.
Dude, I in no way said it was negative. I never said efficient offense does not matter either, my point was that efficient offense is not the most important thing, in the 4th quarter and playoffs I want a guy who can just go get a bucket, efficiently or inefficiently.
Blake in Detroit is probably a good comparison. I would like Paolo to eventually surpass that if he's on the Rockets.. But just from a playstyle perspective that's a pretty good comparison. I think Paolo is maybe a better more willingng passer though.
I don't see the playstyle comparison, Blake was all power at that point and time, Banchero has a better handle and footwork in my opinion, I also think Banchero is a better playmaker but Blake was a good playmaker as well. Also Banchero is taller and a better jump shooter. Let's be real though if we can get Blakes's production out of the number 3 pick we should be happy.
I think playstyle is pretty similar in regards to where he likes to catch the ball and work from the same spot. Being a 4 who can pass and create for himself. Blake learnt more fundamentals of the game in the latter part of his career as a nessacary means to be a “ good “ basketball player, the main problem being Blake’s body was done. A 19 year old with a similar “ style” with yes less power then Blake had in his Clipper years but has the crafty/finesse that the older Griffin showed. Looking at it like that is maybe underwhelming but when you look at the overall picture that his 19 years old with a healthy body with that play style as a PLATFORM as a rookie. We won the draft just like the Magic and Thunder did maybe to the most extent as there isn’t any pressure as we take the remaining out a top 3 who all have their own argument as being the # 1 pick. Hindsight like always will be the real measure.
I watched a lot of Blake Griffin on Detroit. He actually was my best player in fantasy that year he played close to a full season. A few things to consider. It always seemed like there was an injury waiting to happen and it was definitely in Blakes mind judging by his playstyle. Despite what the highlights showed, he avoided contact at all costs. I also think the Pistons were so bad that he just didn’t care at all. His defensive effort was non existent. Also on offense he was extremely perimeter oriented. I don’t see Banchero coming in and launching 7 3’s a game. Blake literally took close to half his attempts from 3. Still, the fact he was able to develop that much of a 3 point shot is encouraging if we were to look at Pistons Blake as a template. I think it’s a good comparison in terms of a few things but until Banchero has that kind of 3 point shot, it’s hard to make that comparison. The Pistons had next to no one and Christian Wood was buried on the bench behind the likes of Thon Maker. Reggie Jackson was injured. Blake’s usage was just absurd and he kind of just did whatever he wanted. It almost seemed like he was practicing his step back 3’s in actual games. The assist numbers were high for him in part because he just had the ball so much of the time. He is also a smart player who understands the game. I just don’t think he was always as willing of a passer as people think. More of an effect from having the ball in his hands so much. At Banchero’s age, Blake did not have the handle or passing ability that Banchero has. Blake had to develop those things. I also thought his shooting form was more of a work in progress. I understand the comparison to Pistons Blake because both players are perimeter oriented. I do not see Banchero shooting 7 threes a game. I don’t think he is afraid of contact like Pistons Blake. I think he gives more of an effort on defense. Even a modicum of effort is more than Blake gave the Pistons. I think he attacks the basket a lot more than settling for jumpshots. (I do think at times however Banchero settled for jumpshots and it’s a legitimate concern). I am also certain that Banchero is not only a more willing passer, but should be a better playmaker in time. Blake didn’t draw the defense in and kick to shooters. A lot of his assists were in part a product of facing constant double teams. Paolo for sure will be more athletic than Blake on the Pistons. I actually thought Blake showed more athleticism and physicality on the Nets presumably because he actually cared. Banchero won’t be rookie Blake athletically but I do believe he is more skilled. He will also play with physicality I don’t think we have to worry about him taking contact. Blake’s whole game in Detroit was about preserving his body and working on new skills. He put up all star numbers doing whatever he wanted. I would want him to touch the ball a lot, but Banchero can hopefully put up numbers with less usage and in a more efficient system. It’s also worth considering. Blake was playing possibly some of the best basketball of his career in that role. Definitely all star level. He carried Andre Drummond Luke Kennard and Bruce Brown into the playoffs and then his body broke down. A big that can operate as a focal point on the perimeter has definitely had success in the modem NBA.
What if your evaluation is that all three of the big men are capped at Robin potential, though? Not every draft is as loaded as last year's with franchise-level talent. And if you're assuming that none of the top 3 guys this year will be able to be a guy you can build around, then Jabari and Chet's profiles would seem to work a lot better than Paolo's as a supporting role. The worry is that it's not a hard stretch to envision Jabari Smith maxing out in the role of Klay Thompson, or Khris Middleton, or Pascal Siakam. We know that the profile works, and can win if you have someone who can create on offense. If Chet is a DPOY candidate on one end and can be just a little bit better than Rudy Gobert on offense, then we can see that working even if he can't create his own shot. For Paolo though, does being a playmaker/scorer with middling defense help in building a championship squad? If Banchero maxes out at either a less athletic Blake Griffin or a smarter Julius Randle, he might be the best individual player out of the trio, and yet it might be the hardest to build around him, because you're going to be limited in who you can play next to him. I don't really blame anyone for preferring any one of the 3 big men. It's a heck of a lot easier when prospects fit into a pre-defined success story. To me, that's why people are desperately trying to pretend Banchero is a "big wing", and he's going to follow in Jayson Tatum's footsteps. I don't see it at all, from the fluidity, to the handle, to the jump shot, they seem nothing alike. I see 2015 playoffs Josh Smith in Banchero, a true 4 that just bullied guards who tried to check him, dribbled around bruisers, and played under control for perhaps the only time in his career. Of course, he only was on the Rockets because the Pistons had bought him out, after failing to convert him to a wing to play next to Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond. And Banchero's jump shot literally can't be worse than Smoove's...
A proper comparison of someone like Banchero would involve multiple players considering his attributes. The comparisons of Blake is semi legit considering the power and playmaking at the forward position but Blake relied heavily on driving and power finishes by using his athleticism at the rim. Blakes tends to look awkward in certain scenarios when handling given his upright dribbling and posture. Blake lacks wiggle, while a good passer he's a bit far off in terms of creating and playmaking compared to Paolo. Paolo who played guard before his growth spurt has much more fluid movements while using crossovers and jab steps before setting up his defenders, Paolo can boogie a bit with the ball. Finishing and shooting wise Paolo has a combination of power and finesse which draws many comparisons to Chris Webber who was a dog from the block and high post. Chris was money from midrange and used a variation of hooks, layups, and dunks around the cup. Prime Blake was looking to poster everything, a lot of his finesse plays were afterthoughts until he developed a solid jumper. Pablo and Chris trick bag are heavily equipped with these types of moves given both are less athletic than Blake but more skillful overall. Lastly, is Paolo's handle and smooth transitions out his jabs which reminds many of Tatum who doesn't have the best speed or handle but still can drive to the cup and get to his spots effortlessly. The positioning of defenders and set ups before pulling up or taking off are all attributed to the level of skill and IQ both players attain. Hardly will you see these guys off balance or out of rhythm, somehow always playing at their pace. These type of players control the game, similar to CP3, even brings a sort of calmness to the team. It's difficult comparing a talent like Paolo to one person.
If you think all 3 are capped at Robin I would take Banchero 3rd. The only one I believe who caps out as a Robin in the top 3 is Jabari. Any other year I'd gladly take Chet and he would fit very well on the Rockets. He could very well be a franchise cornerstone. I have a few concerns but I think Chet is so smart that he will figure out a way to compensate. The truth is, I've been watching Banchero a few years now and I haven't been this excited about a prospect since Luka. I would dismantle everything to build around him and Green. I think we shouldn't take too much stock in "weak drafts". Weak drafts aren't always weak and sometimes "strong draft classes" turn out to be even weaker. The last time we had a weak draft with no superstar upside players, we got Ant Edwards #1 and Lamelo Ball #3. No one believed in these guys. To your comparisons - Jabari Smith could one day be Klay Thompson in the sense that he shoots well and defends at a very high level. His defense is legit and he is undoubtedly a very good shooter. However, he was not the most efficient player and it should be at least cause for concern.The other thing about Klay is his ELITE off-ball movement. He's like a GOAT off ball player. Are we expecting Jabari at 6'10 to be running through screens every possession? Jabari is impressive the way he can get to his spots but its different. I can't for the life of me see Khris Middleton or especially, Pascal Siakam. Both of those guys can be primary playmakers if need be. You can run an offense through both of them. Pascal is highly efficient in the post. He's a very good finisher. Jabari doesn't score in the post. Jabari has very low assist's per 36 and his handle needs a ton of work to even be half the player Pascal is. Pascal is a below average 3 point shooter and even though its in his arsenal, he doesn't typically generate offense from midrange pull-ups. Although he has done more of that more recently. Pascal is one of the best playmaking bigs in the entire NBA. Siakam came in as a very poor shooter. Paolo Banchero is closer to Siakam already than Jabari will ever be. They couldn't be further apart as players. The only thing Jabari and Siakam have in common is they defend the perimeter better than they defend the post. I see Jabari as what DeAndre Hunter was hyped to be. Even still, Hunter was way more efficient as a scorer in college between the two. I think comparing Banchero's defense to the other two prospects is already an incredibly high bar. That does not mean Banchero doesn't have ability to be a competent defender and he has the tools to do it. I don't know that he's a middling defender his entire career. Banchero played guard until he had a growth spurt. There is a championship game he played in where he and TyTy Washington were the same size. Trust me, no one is trying to pretend Banchero is a big wing and it has nothing to do with a narrative. He is a very large man with the skill set of a guard. He understands the game from the perspective of a guard and he plays that way. I'm not sure what you are watching but the one year he played at Duke is not really his full game. There are a myriad of reasons for this including playing alongside multiple guards and playmakers who are also NBA prospects and Coach K putting his best scorer in a role that works especially well at the college level. Banchero is not the athlete or defender that Josh Smith was in his prime. Josh Smith was nowhere near the playmaker that Banchero already is. Josh Smith was an absolute black hole. He wasn't particularly great at generating offense and had to rely on others for his offense more times than not. Banchero will easily be a better shooter than Josh Smith. Josh Smith was really, really bad from 3. If you look at Josh Smith’s shooting splits it could be argued quite easily that Banchero is already a better shooter right now. He was nowhere near close to shooting 35% from catch and shoot and Banchero has already eclipsed that mark in college. (He basically shot the same percentage on catch and shoot 3's for Duke that Pascal Siakam shot in the NBA this year.) Josh Smith took a TON of horrible mid range shots. He was a black hole. Certainly not the playmaker Banchero can be. If you watch Banchero play in high school, especially his Junior and Senior year you'll see a very, very large point guard. The NBA pace and space is only going to going to play to those strengths. There is improved spacing and the game is faster. He played a role at Duke as a 4 and coming in he was the #1 ranked player in the country. He excelled in his role at Duke because he is smart enough and good enough to dominate in whatever role he is given. Don't be fooled into thinking thats his game though. I'm not sure what footage you are referring to but he's not a 4 and that is more than apparent watching his high school tape. There is plenty of it out there! If we understand that labeling a draft class as weak before any players even play a game is subjective and just look at what the players have to offer, I would go with the skillset that is the rarest and also arguably most important in the NBA. IF I really believed in that player. The only way to find talent like that is at the top of the draft and this is probably our last chance. Its not only the fluidity of movement and feet at his size but what is going on between the ears. He had some super clutch moments at Duke where he put the team on his back to get a win. He lived up to the hype 100% and screams alpha to me. The methodical approach from Banchero and the speed of Jalen Green playing off ball where he excels is fascinating to me. Lets get KPJ who lead the entire league in catch and shoot and Jalen Green someone who can hit them off screens and pin downs. If you can get a legitimate downhill scoring threat from your forward spot who has the vision and is willing to hit those guys off screens and cuts, I really believe you are on to something. Anything that keeps Jalen fresh on defensive from not shouldering the entire offense or anyone that can keep defenses from doubling Green is something to seriously consider.
If you get guys that inefficiently "go get a bucket" you become the Lillard blazers and don't win ****. Probably why efficiency is more important than going to get buckets.
Do you believe Banchero-Sengun is playable together? I also believe like @HI Mana that neither of top 3 are or will be NBA 1st options, definition of Robin's if you will. Green-Banchero must have 3 players around them that are legit 2 way 3ball specialists as well as elite defensively. If one of those 3 players was a switchy rim protector then even better. As long as we understand that criteria then I have no problem with Banchero as the pick.
I love Sengun and his defense was better than initially thought. To be honest though, I’m not sure you want Sengun in closing lineups because of his inability to move laterally the way you’d want. That is regardless of whether we have Paolo or not. Of the two I think Banchero has a better chance at being competent in a switching scheme. Id rather pair him with a defensive oriented big who can switch, play help defense and block shots better than Sengun. I think they can play together for stretches depending on the matchup but there is a likelihood it could get ugly and I don’t think you come close to winning a chip having them both on the floor in crunch time. That doesn’t mean I’d immediately trade Sengun. He’s so young and by 25 he’s going to be an entirely different player. We could start them both and stagger them and leave Sengun as many teams do with their centers these days on the bench in crunch time. I’m also of the belief that the NBA is constantly changing. We just don’t know what the future is or how teams will play. This is always changing. Perhaps Sengun becomes a star in the post like he was in Turkey. If teams went small he would out rebound and abuse the other team in the paint. He would abuse double teams in the paint with his passing. I still have the feeling regardless of who we put around him though, in the playoffs he will absolutely be hunted off pick and rolls. Im not sure Paolo would be hunted like that. I still think you can start them both and it could be a really physically bruising frontcourt that can wear opponents down while providing excellent passing all around the floor. This could work so long as you stagger them and leave Sengun on the bench in the 4th quarter. I don’t believe we make the playoffs next year or probably year after as well. Might as well play Sengun and improve his value. We might be able to get a haul for him if we played our cards right. The pairing in regular season could work better than playoffs especially if we followed this recipe. I’d like to see where these guys are a few years from now. Specifically about the paring with Green - I thought Green made strides on defense last year though he still has a long way to go. Point is, he really seems to genuinely care about his defense and he has the tools to improve. My hope is that he becomes a plus defender in time. He has the work ethic and willingness to get better on that side of the ball. If we add someone who can lessen the offensive burden on him, it will go a long way to getting him to that level. If you have any faith in Green becoming a plus defender then pairing him with Banchero isn’t as dire. Who knows? Maybe they both can be decent on that end. Neither of them lack the tools even if Banchero caps out as average, I could see a world where Green is above average. As long as Banchero isn’t hunted in pick and rolls I’ll take it. And yes I would fill the rest of the team with defense and shooting. We can find high level defenders and shooters not only in the draft, but free agency as well.
I think Banchero has the most "Batman" potential out of all three because he has the most ability to create his own shot and be a playmaker for others. I think Chet being this Kevin Garnett-esque two way player and Jabari developing a Kawhi like handle is less likely than Banchero being a lesser scoring and playmaking Luka. If I was starting a team from scratch I'd want Banchero. The fit between players isn't immaterial but we are still in the early innings of the rebuild. As I've said elsewhere, for all we know Sengun will end up being most effective as a 6th man running the bench with some overlap with the starters.
The Detroit Griffin comps aren't bad but I'd say a huge difference is Blake had this flop thing he did when he went to the basket that I don't think Banchero has. Banchero seems to be willing to draw actual contact. This is a big distinction. I've only seen 3 games of his or so... so I could be wrong.
Paolo is nothing like Luka or Lebron. Nothing at all like either of them. If he was remotely close he would be the consensus number 1 overall pick. Banchero is unlikely to even ever average 5 assists a game in the league. Much less close to double digit
