Only responding to this because of your snarky tone. Not sure how you define the entirely subjective term “definitively better”, but Siri has far outperformed Tapia and is projected to continue to do so. He is a FAR more valuable defensive player while also being projected to be a better overall hitter. The argument that Siri has no value because he was once a minor league free agent is just stupid. The guy has put up about 1.2 fwar worth of big league value in just 148 big league appearances. He’s long been labeled as an elite athlete with plus tools across the board (except one): his arm, speed, and power are all elite. Biggio has now been below replacement level across 2 partial seasons. Oh, and guess what, Siri has MORE years of control than Biggio. I’m not even gonna address your idea that Siri might not be better than Zimmer, who is awful and is at best an emergency option in CF. So would Toronto trade Biggio for Siri? Maybe, maybe not. But is it realistic they’d consider it? Of course; their OF sucks outside of Springer and Biggio has been worse than worthless to them since last year. As for McCormick/Profar, Profar is on track to opt out of his contract, so he’s likely a rental with financial downside. McCormick has 5 more years of control and projects to be roughly an equivalent hitter to Profar, plus McCormick can handle CF which the Padres have no OF capable of playing CF outside of Grisham. In terms of surplus value, McCormick far outstrips Profar, it’s not even debatable. Gasser is listed as a 40 grade prospect 14th in SD’s system. Hes currently sitting on a 5.31 era in High A as a 23 year old. He’s not that valuable. Its fine to say those teams would pass, but the deals are in range of fair value.
Well they have 7 starters so effectively you're trading bullpen arms because you're forcing Javier and Odorizzi there. I think you're being a little naive that they had no idea Berrios would sign on long term... possible they didn't want to hash out details during a pennant run and had basic parameters. I like Berrios but he's not worth what they gave up for 1.5 seasons. I'm ok with moving Hunter for a top 10 bat... I just think they get better offers than what we can do losing only 1 major league arm...
That's a well thought out and rational argument you've made... Let me guess, it's because Soto is good at baseball and speaks spanish that makes him off limits?
I just worry about a team stepping in and offering a top 10 prospect and more... I'm fine moving 5 or 6 guys and offering depth or quality... the Nats need players...
I don't know if you're just high on your own stuff but those are clearly "the other team is stupid" trades. AKA the other team is selling low on their players. At best, the Siri/Biggio hypothetical is a challenge trade. Both teams are betting their evaluation/development skills are better than the other teams. But the fact that Biggio was a prospect and Siri was a minor league FA matters. Unless Toronto has lost complete faith in Biggio they're not trading him for a guy who doesn't project to be much more than a 4th OF himself and was freely available a year ago. McCormick may have more surplus value but contending teams don't typically trade the BETTER performing player and include a recent high draft pick for projected solid average player. That's selling low on a draft pick that if one season turns around could be a top 100 guy. I get it, you want the Astros to buy-low. Not a novel concept. The other teams, particularly contending ones, aren't looking to help us out there.
There’s a difference between selling low and selling a declining asset and that’s how trades like that happen. Biggio is 27 and has sucked for over 15 months; odds are, he just sucks. In fact, the more I think about it the more I think that would be a bad deal for the Astros. The bottom line is that all teams are looking to make trades to add more value than they’re giving up; yes, where a team is in the competitive cycle changes how they value different performances over time, but trading to add a projected ~8 wins (McCormick over 4.5 seasons) by giving up a projected 1.4 wins (Profar over 0.5 seasons) would be a no brainer for San Diego, especially since they project to be roughly equal players over the rest of this season. Congrats, you’ve just convinced me of the opposite of your point; both deals would be rejected, but by the Astros, not the Blue Jays and Padres.
A team currently trying to win trading 2 of their best (and team controlled) starting pitchers is an absolute non starter unless that trade is for a team controlled better pitcher. It's a complete no f**king way proposal. Aside from the issue for the current club, the rotation moving forward would be an absolute mess. Good starters don't grow on trees, despite how we've made it look.
I think a common theme in this thread is people significantly undervaluing MoR SP and 2nd/3rd tier everyday players. Just because Houston has produced a steady stream of good young SP (Framber, Urquidy, Garcia, Javier) and decent young OF (Straw, McCormick, Meyers, Siri) doesn’t mean those types of players grow on trees across the league. Framber, Garcia, and Javier are what you hope an average Top 100 prospect pans out to be. Pitchers who can put up 2-3 war per season and confidently pitch Game 3/4 of a playoff series are very valuable. McCormick and Siri are what you hope a fringe Top 100 prospect ends up contributing in the majors. Guys who play good defense and who you can confidently hit 7th in the lineup are valuable as well.
I think most people have a good sense of that. If anything I think you've gone too far in the other direction and are either overvaluing them yourself or (in my opinion mistakenly) are assuming other front offices will value them similar to what the Astros do. I dunno if you're just super high on Siri but even including last year's aberrational regular season production there's not much to say he's more than a 4th outfielder. Dude's got an 88wRC+; no one's confident when he's hitting 7th in the lineup. Siri doesn't hit as well as Straw and his power doesn't show up enough in games to counter that. If Siri gets slotted into full-time work, everyone is gonna be nervous as hell. Chassy Fizz is a solid ball-player. He's definitely a development win for the organization. But team's don't overpay for 2nd tier OFer. They'd rather roll the dice on their own players or trade for studs/upside players. Chassy Fizz is a classic tweener. Not good enough for CF full-time, not enough power/hit for the corners. Straw has proven he's a first division player (5th overall in CF WR last year, 9th currently this year), but Chassy Fizz and Siri are not Myles Straw.
Whoa dude, what are you insinuating here? If you are trying to say I don’t want Soto because he speaks Spanish you better get a hold of yourself. Don’t you EVER insinuate I’m a racist, understand? Never I didn’t type out my real thoughts because it is a stupid offer. Yes, Soto is great, but you don’t move two upper level mlb proven starters when you are trying to win now, hoping for Lance to take one of their spots and a total unproven the other So there is the rationale , but take your BS somewhere else
Bringing up how anyone could have gotten Siri last year has no relevance in the conversation. Anyone could have gotten JD Martinez when the Astros released him too. You think a year later, when he was an MVP candidate that anyone would have factored in that a year earlier he was on the waiver wire? Siri is what he is right now, which is likely in the neighborhood of Straw over a full season.
I think that speaks to the league’s impression of him. You make it sound like he carried forward his torrid offensive pace from last season. He hasn’t. He’s a fine piece and is found money but he didn’t magically turn around his profile and stock like JD Martinez did. He’s been a defensive minded 4th OFer. And that’s fine. none of the projection systems have Siri pegged as a solid first division OFer like Straw. If that were the case the going rate would obviously be as high as Straw’s. see above. If you’re implying Siri’s true talent level is all-star rather than Tyler White’ish career opening with subsequent below avg bat/above avg CF then you are the high men on the guy. That’s fine to be the high men as long as you also accept that’s not the commonly held view of the guy.
The genesis of this conversation was me proposing a hypothetical trade of Siri for Cavan Biggio. That in no way indicates I value Siri as a “established 1st division regular” or that his true talent level is an all-star. It means he’s roughly worth trading for a struggling failed infield prospect with a hall of fame name. I think Siri’s outcome is very likely somewhere between an average everyday CF and a good 4th OF, but I do think there is a small chance of him being a very good player.
Lmao... ok, let's get 2 more starters then? Hell, let's do a 12 man rotation? How many people in a rotation and how many do we have? I'm sorry, but you’re confused. I said go to a 5 man rotation, not a 3 man... Also, i did predicate it on Lance looking good so you need to read closer... Get over yourself... you act like that again and I'll block you and move on. The trolling and insults is a dumb use of my time to respond to. You’re done now...
Fair point. My original point was that it was probably a poor optics move for the Blue Jays but let’s just agree to disagree.
Exactly, If his last name wasn't Biggio, it's doubtful anybody on this MB would want to trade for him. I know some disagree, but if they want to give themselves their best chance to win a championship then the catcher position has to be upgraded and I realize what Maldonado means to the pitching staff.
Contreras would be the only catching upgrade I could see. I can’t see us moving on from Maldonado as our everyday catcher unless the offensive upgrade is huge. Contreras is also good enough to be a DH candidate at times
No way I'm trading Brown. Kid has a chance to be special. As for Soto, trading for him will cost numerous prospects which depending on the package I could be ok with, however next season he's probably going to be making 20-25 mil in Arbitration. Throw in Bregman's contract jumping from 11 mil to 28 mil and that Tucker and Yordan and Framber all will be Arbitration eligible. You want to keep JV you're looking at increasing his salary probably 10-15 mil more.
They are at 130 million. That gives them 70-80 million for tucker/yordan raises, resign gurriel, Maldonado, and Brantley. That 130 assumes 25 for Verlander. If you're adding Soto for Framber than the arb for Framber is irrelevant. If not, that's ok, it's not a huge number. Reality is they could let Brantley walk and sign/trade for a cf on the cheap. Maybe Meyers is still around? You wouldn't choose Brantley over Soto. Money isn't much different between the two... Definitely worth exploring i think, but not afraid to walk away...
