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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    I am what facebook or youtube video he got the qanon story from?
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Rand Paul is a fool, and that is an enormous understatement.

    The Soviet Union was essentially a continuation of the Russian Empire. That empire ruthlessly conquered nation-states and attempted to stamp out much of their culture, their languages, often sending those thought to be "dissidents" into internal exile within the Empire (something Putin is reportedly doing now). Ukraine is an example of that.

    The "New Aristocracy" became the Leaders of the Communist Party, their friends and relations. Corruption was rampant. The party leaders led the lives of the rich, while the overwhelming majority, the "masses," stood in line for hours to buy the basic essentials. Under Stalin, millions died of starvation because they couldn't get even that. Some of the highly educated members of the Party, the scientists, those involved with high technology, particularly those helping to create advanced weapons of war, could live relatively well and could almost be described as a small "middle class."

    Today under Putin? It's the same old thing. Massive corruption. Power and wealth, beyond the dreams of avarice, in the hands of the few. The closer you are to Putin, the greater the benefit. What Putin is doing now, with his mad invasion of European Ukraine, is hurting the Russian rich. Recently, a couple of those very rich were murdered, along with their wives and children. My guess is that they had "privately" complained to the wrong persons and were used as a message to the rich. Even hint at turning against Putin, and the same thing will happen to you.

    Ironically, the large number of relatively young Russians who are highly educated in technology, in all it's forms, particularly those who can earn a good living in front of a keyboard, are fleeing Russia by the tens of thousands. Putin's actions in Ukraine, as well as the real threat of being conscripted into the Russian military as the war goes badly for Putin, are driving them away from their homeland. This will really hurt Russia badly in the long run. Putin has truly become a madman, busy damning his own country.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I don't really want to derail the Ukraine thread rebutting loony theories (though they do somehow include the war in Ukraine). So, I'll be brief. The point of Build Back Better was to dramatically improve our capital investments in infrastructure all over the country which we've been saying for years is under-capitalized, deteriorating, and now somewhat of a drag on our global competitiveness. It's an investment play. It's bridges and wifi and electric grid and school buildings and cybersecurity and crap like that. It didn't need a pandemic as a precursor. It didn't need an international conspiracy. How you can weave BBB, covid, WEF, Ukraine, and mask mandates into a conspiracy that looks coherent to you is beyond my comprehension.
     
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  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The Build Back Better agenda was initiated by the World Economic Forum. If you truly cannot comprehend that, watch the videos that they have posted on their website, right now, some from that time and some from within the last few weeks at their most recent meeting, and see for yourself.

    If you are unwilling to evaluate the matter as potentially plausible even if it contradicts the "politically correct" narrative that you guys are apparently devoted to promoting and supporting, no matter what, then your lack of ability to comprehend these matters is a personal problem that you have inflicted on yourself.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    So what? WEF advocates for a more efficient, less rapacious form of capitalism in which more externalities are priced in, less damage is wrought on the global commons (like climate), and less evil is inflicted on the marginalized. They seem to be big on ESG, fair trade, and stopping climate change. The Biden Admin seems to also embrace that approach. So what? WEF isn't hypnotizing world leaders. It's a forum where they congregate, talk about the world's problems, make business deals, and sleep with high-class hookers. Climate change, inclusion, ESG, better capitalism, better policymaking -- these aren't the elements of a conspiracy, it is the culture of the corporate world today. WEF is an influencer, but it's just an influencer. It's like saying Coachella is telling all the musicians of the world what music to make. You're giving them way too much credit.
     
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    B.S. If you are so naive or foolish to actually believe what you just wrote there, you are a lost cause on this issue.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    The fact that the US Senators and Generals are now openly calling for Russia's demise has to be an escalation towards an end.

    They are calling Russia's bluff.

    DD
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Here we go. It is on now. One of these two sides is going to have to capitulate on this issue.

    Russia's Gazprom Halts Gas To Poland

    Russia's Gazprom will halt gas shipments to Poland via the Yamal pipeline from Wednesday, Poland's PGNiG gas firm said in a statement on Tuesday.

    "On April 26, 2022, Gazprom informed PGNiG of its intention to completely suspend deliveries under the Yamal contract... on April 27," PGNiG said. The operator said that Poland was prepared to obtain necessary supplies from other sources. "All deliveries to customers are being made according to their demand," the company said.

    The Polish government also said it was ready to face any interruption of supply from Russia. "There will be no shortage of gas in Polish homes," Climate Minister Anna Moskwa said on Twitter. "Since the first day of the war we have declared that we are ready for full independence from Russian raw materials," she said. "Poland has the necessary gas reserves and sources of supply to protect our security. For years we have been successfully making ourselves independent from Russia," she added.

    Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said gas storage facilities were 76 percent full and Poland was ready to "obtain gas from all possible other directions". Gazprom did not confirm the cut-off but a senior executive at the company was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying that "Poland must pay for gas supplies according to the new payment procedure".

    Following the introduction of sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, the Kremlin has warned EU member states that their gas supplies will be cut unless they paid in rubles. Western countries have refused to do so, saying that they can continue to pay in euros or dollars. The EU as a whole received around 40 percent of its gas supplies from Russia in 2021.​
     
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    And if Russia is not bluffing, as they almost assuredly are not, then what is this an escalation towards?
     
  10. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Stepping past a nuclear power's "red line" is generally a bad bad idea.

    They could be bluffing until they aren't.

    I don't know much about WEF. I only liked because I saw big words a conservative should use more often. (ESG optional)
     
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  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Everyone knows there are no winners in a nuclear war, so unless they are dying, with zero outs.....there will be no nuclear war.

    Even if we beat Russia back into their own country as long as we stop and let Putin stay in power, no nukes.

    DD
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Color me naive and foolish.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    They always bluff, that is what they do......they have been bluffing with Nukes for years......

    We have to leave Putin an out to stay in power - that is all that we have to guarantee.

    He is the one destroying his own military right now - at some point, either his generals kill him off, or he runs out of the ability to make war, either through lack of funding, or troops and equipment.

    All Dictators drink their own milkshakes and end up making dumb decisions.

    DD
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Like they are "bluffing" in Ukraine, right now this minute? Those fools in Washington are calling for an escalation that leads to conventional war with Russia. The Russians are already at war in Ukraine, and anyone who thinks they are going to stand aside like a matador at a bullfight at the sight of our planes or tanks moving into Ukraine - that they are bluffing about being willing to defend themselves in this territory - that person is a very ignorant, reckless and foolish person indeed.

    To be fair, these people in Washington do not believe that Russia is "bluffing" about being willing to defend itself against NATO or American forces in Ukraine. They are actually trying to take us to war, in what could and very possibly will turn into WWIII. You are mistaken if you think these North Atlantic elitist establishment apparatchiks are calculating that Russia is "bluffing". That is not what they are expecting at all.

    Also, the Russians are not wanting to use nukes any more than we are. They will not use them, unless it looks like we are invading their country and they have no other choice. In other words, we cannot successfully overthrow the Russian government without a nuclear war, but we will almost assuredly have one if we are on the verge of doing that.
     
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  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    My guess is we have our top intelligence investments solely focused on monitoring Russia's preparations for a nuclear strike. Given how they've handled Russia so far with this admin I think that US officials will declassify proof that Russia is ratcheting up nuclear preparation and sound some pretty huge alarm bells.

    I'm 95% sure that Russia is trying to bully the world into thinking twice about ratcheting up support for Ukraine's efforts. Mostly because it's not clear to me that Putin cannot continue to stay in power win or lose, call it a win regardless of the truth, stay wealthy, and keep from getting assasinated . What I fear is what Putin does if it's clear he's truly lost in a way that he cannot stay alive and in power.

    As long as there is still hope for him to carve out even a sliver of the Donbas or Crimea I think there's always an opportunity for him to claim victory. Putin enjoys himself and enjoys living too much at this point to sign his death certificate when it's clear he's still likely to stay in power, stay wealthy, stay alive, and lie to the Russian people about whatever reality he wants to create for them.
     
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  16. thegary

    thegary Member

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    In the America I grew up in there was no partisan division about which country we supported. It was not Russia/USSR… If anything the republicans were the more hawkish with regards to REDS. What on earth has happened?
     
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  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's easy to say and even do **** if you think the war you want will end within a year.

    Things change as both sides become normalized to war while the neighborhoods you live in becomes impoverished from casualties and debt.

    I don't remember if you're a fan of history dada. After years of prolonged fighting, people go off the deep end and everything off the table comes back onto it.
     
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  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Many libs think Russia helped steal the election for Trump (hacking, leaks, DNC playbook, "wishful lawbreaking" during rallies, etc...)

    Media institutions such as CNN, MSNBC, and NYT played hard on that accusation rather than admit their own role for magnifying Trump's campaign while tearing down Hillary's.

    So Libs point to Russia as the enemy, while Cons point to China.

    That way we maintain an over-bloated 700+ billion official military budget no matter which party is in control despite claiming the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are over..
     
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  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The Democrat left has turned hard against this country, its constitution, its values and any of its people that dare not to bow the knee to their virulently evil ideals and agenda.

    The greatest threat that our nation face does not come from the outside, it comes from within, and it is the American Democrat left. They have hijacked our nation and are now destroying it in rapid fashion. We are not going to ally with that, or assist it. We are going to oppose it and however we can try to stop it.
     
  20. LosPollosHermanos

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    About intervening? Lmao if you think there will be troops. Perhaps you should read up on the Cold War. I assure you, nobody is going to take a risk on them bluffing . You really need to educate yourself you sound like a kid
     
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