Feel the Rainbow? Texas teacher fired over rainbow stickers

Nuh uh, that's persecution of good to honest families!!

 

He was doing it on school property at a school sponsored event, I don't how he should be allowed to that and he is the coach, players have to feel pressure to join in even if it's subconsciously.

 

I agree with you on this. Founding Fathers probably weren't looking for this comprehensive exorcism of religious practice from schools. I also agree they were wrong and we're better off with the secular approach we've ended up taking. I'd find it a compelling argument against Originalism. But, I wanted to chime in on the last sentence because there is potential that a conservative, Originalism-minded SCOTUS could take that view and let overt Christianity back into classrooms so long as it wasn't an official state religion. You wouldn't be able to block that interpretation with state or federal law. With that interpretation, state or federal law would be overridden by the concern for the individual's first amendment freedom of religion. It would have to be a constitutional amendment (which is nigh impossible to get in politics today) to protect the modern approach to the separation of church and state.

 

Yes that's true that there will be a subtle pressure from an authority figure based on personal beliefs, but it is still understood that you are still entitled to personal beliefs even in a professional setting. As stated a teacher or coach can certainly wear a cross or Star of David on their person. They could keep a copy of the 10 Commandments sitting on their desk. Further things like banning personal prayer would be difficult to enforce.

For example: The kicker comes out to kick a last second field goal to win the game. The coach says "Please God let this kick be good." That is a prayer but I doubt anyone would consider that violating the Establishment Clause.

Like many issues this is one where rights need to be balanced. In the case of what the coach was doing here I don't think he's on the side of pushing religion or causing the school to push religion.

 

As a coach and as having been a player I fully understand peer pressure to be part of the team. That still has to be balanced with that as an individual you don't give up completely your free speech or religious rights in your job. In fact most jobs cannot discriminate on the basis of religion such as many businesses have to give accommodation to Muslims for daily prayers.

A personal example is that in Judo we bow a lot. We bow at the beginning of practice. We bow at the end. We bow before matches. We bow at the end of matches. As a coach at a college with a non-discrimination policy we would have students who for religious reasons could not bow outside of their specific religious context. I couldn't compel them to bow and when we all bowed in and bowed out as a team they certainly stood out. I know at least one student felt uncomfortable not being able to participate with the rest of the class but as coach it was my job to assure him that he shouldn't do anything that violated his religious conscious.

As I said in my earlier response this is a matter of balance of rights. As long as it is fully understood that there is no official requirement or expectation for students or others to participate and as long as it's not an official part of the game I think it should be allowed.

 

I read this story in the NY TImes and didn't see it stated as being a team prayer nor heard that students were getting lesser roles or minutes who didn't participate.

If there is evidence such as a pattern that unofficially he was giving players who didn't join the prayer less minutes and lesser roles then yes I would agree he should be fired.

 

To tie this back to the sticker issue. I do think these are fine lines and while the cases are similar aren't quite analogous. For the case of the teacher I see no problem with her after school putting up a big sticker and declaring her room an LGBT "Safe Space". During class time though is where it get's problematic.

Consider if a student doesn't identify as LGBT and has a religious objection to LGBT would they have to silence or subsume that view in that teacher's classroom? Would there be an expectation that they might not get graded fairly if they expressed views that went against the teacher's view of it being a "Safe Space for LGBT"?

 

Praying on the football field is not personal and has nothing to do with wearing a necklace.

None of those examples is anything like praying on the field and if we can't even agree on that there is no need to go any further.

He is doing this as a public professional as the head coach he is definitely pushing religion, church, and state are supposed to be separate, public school is the state.

 

He should be able to pray. The school (and coach) however need to make sure it's communicated that no players should be compelled to participate or that not doing so is looked upon unfavorably.

 

Yes he should be able to pray but that does not mean it has to happen at midfield after a football game.

The fact that he is the head coach compels everyone to participate even if he tells them otherwise, especially in public in front of everyone.

 

I'm fine with it as long as that same school allows a Muslim to say a prayer out loud in the middle of the field before the game or any other religion.

 

Ok.

 

Ok

 

My position stays the same. The head coach has an extra responsibility to communicate.

 

I am not trying to change your position I am just pointing out it's against what this country was built on, separation of church and state, and in a lot of schools, the Head coach has more power than the principal hell even the superintendent.

Can you imagine if the head coach was Muslim and pulled out a prayer rug?

 

I would be fine with that though I understand there likely would be an outrage among the extreme right. I'm not against or for any religion or no religion. My standard is always what's the actual impact on Students. In the 80s, the impact is pretty obvious. Now, it's well understood that you don't force anyone to participate or treat them differently. That to me should be the test.

 

Is it fully understood? Is there an official communication from the coach that the players do not have to participate?

I'd like someone please explain why prayer has to be this large spectacle. The coach knew what he was doing and where it would lead. Why is it so hard to pray in his office after the game to to himself on the bus ride. Putting it on the 50 immediately after the game is only designed to incorporate others and to make it as obvious as possible. Then it becomes an issue for the team and the players feel pressured to participate.

 

Yes, consistency. Christians that object to this should be ok with also discontinuing Christmas , Easter etc references , and if they want to continue those they shouldn’t have a problem with rainbow stickers and Muslims praying